7 ms·

I have lived in Manhattan for a long time and it is very important to limit Airbnb for a number of reasons. First, people who live in apartment buildings do no

I have lived in Manhattan for a long time and it is very important to limit Airbnb for a number of reasons. First, people who live in apartment buildings do not want transients living there for personal safety and other reasons. We have doormen for a reason, part of which is to keep strangers out. Airbnb decreases the supply of housing and makes it more expensive for residents. How are either of these helpful? Airbnb and its investors have no respect for New Yorkers who don't want these transients in our buildings. The know that New Yorkers don't want transients living in their buildings and they know we have a housing shortage yet they make things worse. In cities like NYC what Airbnb needs to do is to pivot and build their own hotels under the Airbnb brand and rent them out at much lower costs than the outrageous rates of "name brand" hotels. Airbnb has a huge valuation and can afford to build these hotels and make a profit, while not impinging on the local housing supply and safety of New Yorkers. Startups like Uber are welcomed because they help New Yorkers and visitors by making the supply of taxis and taxi-like vehicles * more available and safe . Airbnb makes the housing market less available and less safe *.

travisp 10y ago
>First, people who live in apartment buildings do not want transients living there for personal safety and other reasons. This doesn't need to be a legal issue. It's simply a rule of the building. People violating it are violating their contract with their building just like when they violate any other rule. > Airbnb decreases the supply of housing and makes it more expensive for residents. Long term it should not decrease the supply of housing. Visitors are either going to stay in airbnbs, with friends, or at hotels. If visitors stay in Airbnbs, then there is less demand for hotels space and more space for residential properties. Demand for hotels also decreases residential supply. Ultimately the issue of Airbnb on housing supply is a small one. Instead, question why so many neighborhoods have height restrictions and restrictions on building anything new. Most people supporting these laws are landowners and will admit that they are trying to protect the value of their property (i.e. keep housing prices high).
- comicjk 10y ago
  > Long term it should not decrease the supply of housing. Visitors are either going to stay in airbnbs, with friends, or at hotels. This is a slices-of-pie argument, neglecting changes in the size of the pie. By being a better value than hotels, airbnbs make traveling more attractive, meaning there will be somewhat more visitors and that they will stay longer. I think this is on balance a good thing for NYC (tourism is an industry, after all) but it does put a little more stress on an already-tight housing market.
  - Idontagree 10y ago
    That's completely arbitrary, all you're saying is hotels are offering things customers don't need, or legislation is causing them to bring up rates. Either way it sounds like there's a problem with the system, yet you think the blame lies solely with those who try and find an alternative.
  - ChrisLTD 10y ago
    Increased tourism might be "on balance a good thing" for NYC economically, but NYC also has an obligation to the welfare of its citizens. Does this new law bill strike the right balance between welfare and economics? I don't know, but the situation before was out of control.
- Aloha 10y ago
  We're not talking about mutualized apartments or condominiums, we're talking apartment buildings, the residents don't have much of a say. Beyond that, the rules even from a condo complex can be lacking teeth, the law is not.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  You realize that the parent was talking about Manhattan, right. They have more than a few tall buildings there. We're not talking NIMBY San Francisco with extreme resistance to anything. We are talking about bulldog being turned into flophouses (i.e. The 3 family in Queens that made the papers when it was divided into 24 AirBNB units is one example.) Another are coops which cost a ton. The issue is that Airbnb decided that it is entitled to just flaunt the law and push out any liability to its customers. Other services make more of an effort... A few resort areas that I'm familiar with have rental restrictions in some areas. VRBO seems to be able to respect that. Airbnb not so much. Similar business model, different practice.
seanp2k2 10y ago
I don't disagree with your point, but why would Airbnb or anyone else build a real hotel then rent out rooms for less than comparable hotels in the area? They could build a hotel and get probably $300 a night in midtown, but they won't, because they're not in the hotel business, and if they were, they would have no good reason to rent out rooms cheaply. The appeal of Airbnb, at least for me, is that you're staying somewhere novel, in a unique place, with unique hosts who may help you have a more fun experience than a hotel would provide. For example, I've had hosts show me around the city a bit, play board games with heir guests, or even just sit around and chat about life for a bit. It has a similar appeal to the good parts of CouchSurfing with a more mature vibe. Edit: I'm sure some people use it for not-good things, but Airbnb is more comparable to a traditional vacation rental company than a hotel company.
- Roritharr 10y ago
  I've had now 5 AirBnB (and copycat) experiences and none were like this. It was everytime a simple "Keys are here, other stuff is there, have fun" Kind of Situation. Never something as romantic as you describe it. How do you find those?
  - jitl 10y ago
    If you set out looking for this, you will surely find it! Use the search filters on Airbnb - the Superhost filter and searching for Private Room instead of Whole Unit are two good tactics to get started. Then read the listings reviews. Do guests mention the host? You can also message your host to make sure. I usually travel with big groups so I don't go looking for this experience, but my parents are into it :) (Disclosure: I'm an engineer @ Airbnb )
spriggan3 10y ago
> In cities like NYC what Airbnb needs to do is to pivot and build their own hotels under the Airbnb Why would they do that since their business model is to take as little risk as possible while making a lot of money? it's just like Uber, the law is someone else's problem in the "sharing economy". You can't rely regulate Airbnb out of cities. You can only catch people who illegally sublet their appartements.
tim333 10y ago
I don't live in NYC but like to visit. How come people like me should be disadvantaged over people like you?
- ghaff 10y ago
  Because you don't live there? That's not facetious. It's pretty much a basic principle of government that the residents of an area get to make decisions about policy in the area where they live (subject to some restrictions).
  - jonny_eh 10y ago
    Sure, they can make the policy, but the policy itself still doesn't make sense.
- Robelius 10y ago
  Because NYC has an obligation to improve the quality of life for its citizens.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  You are free to rent an apartment at any time.
  - ap3 10y ago
    for some definitions of free - not on airbnb and not rent controlled appartments
    - Spooky23 10y ago
      That's a paradox of freedom. Nobody will stop me from being flown to work in a helicopter. But nobody will fly me to work for the price of a bus either.
LeifCarrotson 10y ago
"Transients" is definitely a term well chosen to frame the debate in your favor. "Tourists", "visitors", or even "people" would all be much more welcoming terms. You mention Uber in a positive light as providing "taxi-like vehicles", a nice neutral term. How does it sound when you call them "private black cars", or alternatively, "illegal taxicabs" or "gypsy cabs" (no slur intended against people of that ethnicity!). Calling users of Airbnb "transients" is, in my opinion, unnecessarily harsh. They're human beings, for goodness sake!
- mattzito 10y ago
  Well, in NYC at least, they are neither illegal taxicabs nor gypsy cabs, but fully licensed livery car services that follow all of the rules therein (no street hails, drivers are livery licensed, and uber operates licensed dispatch locations). I'm not the gp but I think transients, as defined as, "people who do not intend to be resident in this location for more than 30 days", works just fine.
  - LeifCarrotson 10y ago
    Transients does work fine, but it also conveys a message. That's what makes it such a great way for GP to frame the conversation!
Spooky23 10y ago
Uber was forced to follow some rules too. Drivers in NYC have commercial insurance requirements, need a TLC license and need to drive an approved vehicle.

travisp 10y ago

>First, people who live in apartment buildings do not want transients living there for personal safety and other reasons. This doesn't need to be a legal issue. It's simply a rule of the building. People violating it are violating their contract with their building just like when they violate any other rule. > Airbnb decreases the supply of housing and makes it more expensive for residents. Long term it should not decrease the supply of housing. Visitors are either going to stay in airbnbs, with friends, or at hotels. If visitors stay in Airbnbs, then there is less demand for hotels space and more space for residential properties. Demand for hotels also decreases residential supply. Ultimately the issue of Airbnb on housing supply is a small one. Instead, question why so many neighborhoods have height restrictions and restrictions on building anything new. Most people supporting these laws are landowners and will admit that they are trying to protect the value of their property (i.e. keep housing prices high).

comicjk 10y ago
> Long term it should not decrease the supply of housing. Visitors are either going to stay in airbnbs, with friends, or at hotels. This is a slices-of-pie argument, neglecting changes in the size of the pie. By being a better value than hotels, airbnbs make traveling more attractive, meaning there will be somewhat more visitors and that they will stay longer. I think this is on balance a good thing for NYC (tourism is an industry, after all) but it does put a little more stress on an already-tight housing market.
- Idontagree 10y ago
  That's completely arbitrary, all you're saying is hotels are offering things customers don't need, or legislation is causing them to bring up rates. Either way it sounds like there's a problem with the system, yet you think the blame lies solely with those who try and find an alternative.
- ChrisLTD 10y ago
  Increased tourism might be "on balance a good thing" for NYC economically, but NYC also has an obligation to the welfare of its citizens. Does this new law bill strike the right balance between welfare and economics? I don't know, but the situation before was out of control.
Aloha 10y ago
We're not talking about mutualized apartments or condominiums, we're talking apartment buildings, the residents don't have much of a say. Beyond that, the rules even from a condo complex can be lacking teeth, the law is not.
Spooky23 10y ago
You realize that the parent was talking about Manhattan, right. They have more than a few tall buildings there. We're not talking NIMBY San Francisco with extreme resistance to anything. We are talking about bulldog being turned into flophouses (i.e. The 3 family in Queens that made the papers when it was divided into 24 AirBNB units is one example.) Another are coops which cost a ton. The issue is that Airbnb decided that it is entitled to just flaunt the law and push out any liability to its customers. Other services make more of an effort... A few resort areas that I'm familiar with have rental restrictions in some areas. VRBO seems to be able to respect that. Airbnb not so much. Similar business model, different practice.

seanp2k2 10y ago

I don't disagree with your point, but why would Airbnb or anyone else build a real hotel then rent out rooms for less than comparable hotels in the area? They could build a hotel and get probably $300 a night in midtown, but they won't, because they're not in the hotel business, and if they were, they would have no good reason to rent out rooms cheaply. The appeal of Airbnb, at least for me, is that you're staying somewhere novel, in a unique place, with unique hosts who may help you have a more fun experience than a hotel would provide. For example, I've had hosts show me around the city a bit, play board games with heir guests, or even just sit around and chat about life for a bit. It has a similar appeal to the good parts of CouchSurfing with a more mature vibe. Edit: I'm sure some people use it for not-good things, but Airbnb is more comparable to a traditional vacation rental company than a hotel company.

Roritharr 10y ago
I've had now 5 AirBnB (and copycat) experiences and none were like this. It was everytime a simple "Keys are here, other stuff is there, have fun" Kind of Situation. Never something as romantic as you describe it. How do you find those?
- jitl 10y ago
  If you set out looking for this, you will surely find it! Use the search filters on Airbnb - the Superhost filter and searching for Private Room instead of Whole Unit are two good tactics to get started. Then read the listings reviews. Do guests mention the host? You can also message your host to make sure. I usually travel with big groups so I don't go looking for this experience, but my parents are into it :) (Disclosure: I'm an engineer @ Airbnb )

spriggan3 10y ago

> In cities like NYC what Airbnb needs to do is to pivot and build their own hotels under the Airbnb Why would they do that since their business model is to take as little risk as possible while making a lot of money? it's just like Uber, the law is someone else's problem in the "sharing economy". You can't rely regulate Airbnb out of cities. You can only catch people who illegally sublet their appartements.

tim333 10y ago

I don't live in NYC but like to visit. How come people like me should be disadvantaged over people like you?

ghaff 10y ago
Because you don't live there? That's not facetious. It's pretty much a basic principle of government that the residents of an area get to make decisions about policy in the area where they live (subject to some restrictions).
- jonny_eh 10y ago
  Sure, they can make the policy, but the policy itself still doesn't make sense.
Robelius 10y ago
Because NYC has an obligation to improve the quality of life for its citizens.
Spooky23 10y ago
You are free to rent an apartment at any time.
- ap3 10y ago
  for some definitions of free - not on airbnb and not rent controlled appartments
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    That's a paradox of freedom. Nobody will stop me from being flown to work in a helicopter. But nobody will fly me to work for the price of a bus either.

LeifCarrotson 10y ago

"Transients" is definitely a term well chosen to frame the debate in your favor. "Tourists", "visitors", or even "people" would all be much more welcoming terms. You mention Uber in a positive light as providing "taxi-like vehicles", a nice neutral term. How does it sound when you call them "private black cars", or alternatively, "illegal taxicabs" or "gypsy cabs" (no slur intended against people of that ethnicity!). Calling users of Airbnb "transients" is, in my opinion, unnecessarily harsh. They're human beings, for goodness sake!

mattzito 10y ago
Well, in NYC at least, they are neither illegal taxicabs nor gypsy cabs, but fully licensed livery car services that follow all of the rules therein (no street hails, drivers are livery licensed, and uber operates licensed dispatch locations). I'm not the gp but I think transients, as defined as, "people who do not intend to be resident in this location for more than 30 days", works just fine.
- LeifCarrotson 10y ago
  Transients does work fine, but it also conveys a message. That's what makes it such a great way for GP to frame the conversation!

Spooky23 10y ago

Uber was forced to follow some rules too. Drivers in NYC have commercial insurance requirements, need a TLC license and need to drive an approved vehicle.