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Not only that, but I think there is reason to believe that AirBnB further stresses the housing market and adds additional fuel to the existing divide between th

Not only that, but I think there is reason to believe that AirBnB further stresses the housing market and adds additional fuel to the existing divide between the Haves and Have Nots by putting more rent monies into the hands of the Haves and creating more scarcity of housing for those looking for a long-term rental, not an alternative to a hotel.

mancerayder 10y ago
They are, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. However, that the Hotel Lobby makes a statement about affordability is a little much, it has such a rhetorical, trendy ring to it (these days a speech has to use the words community, affordable housing, 'your homes', etc.) Out of a housing stock of about 2.2M or so units, AirBNB takes something like 30K off the market, apparently, in this particular instance (short term rentals). People will always skirt the system, though. It's unclear what impact this will have.
- DorintheFlora 10y ago
  I am a bit fed up with hearing this kind of thing. We are all human beings. If you are rich, you get accused of being in it for the money. If you are poor, you are accused of being in it for the money. If you have a vested interest, you are accused of bias. If you have no vested interest, you are told go away and STFU. Poor people do not have the time, energy and money to advocate for changes that would potentially free up a MERE 30k rental units. They are too busy trying to survive. People with money are generally too busy trying to get richer or keep what they have to put time into trying to make the world an actually better place. Who is allowed to say "This is bad for affordable housing" and be taken seriously? It seems like there is no one on the planet who is allowed to advocate for affordable housing. We are all guilty of something. Meanwhile, affordable housing simply is not happening.
  - mancerayder 10y ago
    Affordable housing is tough in a market where only 1M apartments are market rate -- and don't misread me as saying that the other 1M shouldn't be stabilized, I'm just pointing out the elastic part of the housing market -- in one of the most dynamic cities financially and culturally in the world. NYC is half the geographical size of London, has 500K more residents within it in 2010 than 2000, and has a strong economy right now. Stronger than places like the rust belt. It has finance, media and tech, it has international allure. I'm not actually advocating for or against affordable housing, but I do want to say that it is incredibly not surprising that with such a small supply of land and housing, that things aren't affordable when so many people want to be here. There are lots of hot cities in the world where things aren't affordable. And when people say NYC isn't affordable, it's misleading: what's not affordable are the desirable neighborhoods. Across the river in places like Jersey City, within NYC south Bronx, Staten Island, many parts of Queens, while increasing in demand are also relatively affordable. If people to live in an area that becomes very hot and popular (eg. Williamsburg), you only manage to live there if you're lucky, bought before things got expensive, or relatively affluent.
    - DorintheFlora 10y ago
      Homelessness has been increasing nationwide for about 3 decades or so: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/why.html http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/why.html This is because the supply of affordable housing has been dwindling while demand grows: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129233128 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1292331... This is not specific to New York per se. I guess you have every right to argue that this is just a New York issue because this this a New York law under discussion, but lack of affordable housing is hardly specific to New York and AirBnB is also hardly specific to New York. So, while you no doubt have some valid points, the fact is that affordable housing is simply not happening nationwide. And when people do what you are currently doing -- and most people do -- of saying "yes, BUT..." and acting like somehow this specific instance is not relevant or doesn't count, well, again, affordable housing is simply not happening and there is always an excuse and it is always not the thing we are talking about THIS time. So, do you have any pointers as to how and when it would be okay to make any points about it without them being dismissed out of hand as irrelevant, not on topic and so on? Thanks.
- yuhong 10y ago
  I wonder what would happen if it was not illegal and there was actually a spot and contract market in housing.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    Maybe we'd call it a hotel or something like that.
    - yuhong 10y ago
      That is not what I mean.

mancerayder 10y ago

They are, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. However, that the Hotel Lobby makes a statement about affordability is a little much, it has such a rhetorical, trendy ring to it (these days a speech has to use the words community, affordable housing, 'your homes', etc.) Out of a housing stock of about 2.2M or so units, AirBNB takes something like 30K off the market, apparently, in this particular instance (short term rentals). People will always skirt the system, though. It's unclear what impact this will have.

DorintheFlora 10y ago
I am a bit fed up with hearing this kind of thing. We are all human beings. If you are rich, you get accused of being in it for the money. If you are poor, you are accused of being in it for the money. If you have a vested interest, you are accused of bias. If you have no vested interest, you are told go away and STFU. Poor people do not have the time, energy and money to advocate for changes that would potentially free up a MERE 30k rental units. They are too busy trying to survive. People with money are generally too busy trying to get richer or keep what they have to put time into trying to make the world an actually better place. Who is allowed to say "This is bad for affordable housing" and be taken seriously? It seems like there is no one on the planet who is allowed to advocate for affordable housing. We are all guilty of something. Meanwhile, affordable housing simply is not happening.
- mancerayder 10y ago
  Affordable housing is tough in a market where only 1M apartments are market rate -- and don't misread me as saying that the other 1M shouldn't be stabilized, I'm just pointing out the elastic part of the housing market -- in one of the most dynamic cities financially and culturally in the world. NYC is half the geographical size of London, has 500K more residents within it in 2010 than 2000, and has a strong economy right now. Stronger than places like the rust belt. It has finance, media and tech, it has international allure. I'm not actually advocating for or against affordable housing, but I do want to say that it is incredibly not surprising that with such a small supply of land and housing, that things aren't affordable when so many people want to be here. There are lots of hot cities in the world where things aren't affordable. And when people say NYC isn't affordable, it's misleading: what's not affordable are the desirable neighborhoods. Across the river in places like Jersey City, within NYC south Bronx, Staten Island, many parts of Queens, while increasing in demand are also relatively affordable. If people to live in an area that becomes very hot and popular (eg. Williamsburg), you only manage to live there if you're lucky, bought before things got expensive, or relatively affluent.
  - DorintheFlora 10y ago
    Homelessness has been increasing nationwide for about 3 decades or so: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/why.html http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/why.html This is because the supply of affordable housing has been dwindling while demand grows: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129233128 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1292331... This is not specific to New York per se. I guess you have every right to argue that this is just a New York issue because this this a New York law under discussion, but lack of affordable housing is hardly specific to New York and AirBnB is also hardly specific to New York. So, while you no doubt have some valid points, the fact is that affordable housing is simply not happening nationwide. And when people do what you are currently doing -- and most people do -- of saying "yes, BUT..." and acting like somehow this specific instance is not relevant or doesn't count, well, again, affordable housing is simply not happening and there is always an excuse and it is always not the thing we are talking about THIS time. So, do you have any pointers as to how and when it would be okay to make any points about it without them being dismissed out of hand as irrelevant, not on topic and so on? Thanks.
yuhong 10y ago
I wonder what would happen if it was not illegal and there was actually a spot and contract market in housing.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Maybe we'd call it a hotel or something like that.
  - yuhong 10y ago
    That is not what I mean.