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I'm a little disappointed by Tweets like this one from pg: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/743877723257331713 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/7438777232573317

I'm a little disappointed by Tweets like this one from pg: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/743877723257331713 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/743877723257331713. He says: "You can't have it both ways, @NYSenate. You can't both be a startup hub and give incumbents laws banning startups." I disagree with this sentiment on so many levels. First, while Airbnb has been working hard to frame this as "the hotel industry vs the disruptive startup," there are plenty of regular New Yorkers who oppose "entire apartment" listings, either because they make bad neighbors, or because they further constrain the apartment supply in an already tight rental market. Second, we can argue over the semantics of what makes a company a "startup," but Airbnb is a large tech company worth billions of dollars that is impacting communities all over the world, for better or worse. It is unfair to take the position that to be a "startup hub" a city must support Airbnb's practices, even if is to the detriment of that city's residents. And lastly, this law doesn't "ban" Airbnb. Short term "entire apartment" rentals were already illegal in NY. This just makes it easier to go after violators. And you can still rent out an extra room on Airbnb, or rent an apartment with an extra bedroom and rent that out. Anyway, would love for PG or someone from YC who agrees with him to respond.

hackaflocka 10y ago
Agreed, plus: just because something's a startup doesn't mean it should get automatic protection. If the mafia re-incorporates as a startup in NYC, does it become incumbent on NYC to protect it because it wants to be a "startup hub"?
- dsl 10y ago
  I call these "Uber Businesses." They only exist because they were able to raise capital and market share faster than the legal system could respond to them breaking laws.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Exactly. I figure the same thing will happen with "we deliver gas to your vehicle" startups and others in the future.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
danhak 10y ago
PG's Tweet is pretty off-base and disingenuous. He makes it seem like AirBNB is being persecuted and that there are no legitimate grievances with the way AirBNB is negatively impacting local communities and housing markets. The city of Santa Monica banned certain short-term AirBNB rentals last year and remains one of the hottest tech hubs in the country: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/13/406587575/santa-monica-cracks-down-on-airbnb-bans-vacation-rentals-under-a-month http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/13/406587575/... Kudos to NY lawmakers for taking this step.
mtmail 10y ago
I agree. Is that the 2000 employee "startup" that recently got 1 billion via debt financing? /s (employee count source https://www.quora.com/How-many-employees-does-Airbnb-have-1 https://www.quora.com/How-many-employees-does-Airbnb-have-1)
ap3 10y ago
Why should not be able to advertise/rent your apartment on Airbnb?
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > Why should not be able to advertise/rent your apartment on Airbnb? It's already been illegal to rent out a whole apartment for less than 30 days. The new law just extends that to advertising the unit. Basically, the law now prevents you from advertising a service that was already illegal.
- rpgmaker 10y ago
  There is a lot of stuff you can't do to your own house/apartment without violating some rule or law. This is old. Airbnb can be disruptive in many negative ways and not every community feels that the trade-offs of letting them do as they please are worth it.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  For one, it's against every rental agreement I've ever signed (no subletting clause). Another reason people don't like it is due to the party people who frequently rent these, the extra parking spaces being used, people moving around at all hours, people not caring about the space because they don't own it, etc. Basically all the things which are incentivized in normal multi-month rental contracts which are not present in Airbnb contracts. People who live in an apartment building don't want a hotel room next to them.
  - Idontagree 10y ago
    I agree with the sentiment that the people using Airbnb are not going to care like owners, but they're also going to be liable for damage caused just like in any other rental. Policing that, though, is surely a nightmare. Also how are extra parking spaces being used, I would assume if you rent out your rental, you're not going to leave your automobile there? I mean you might have multiple cars, but then that in itself is already causing congestion.
  - ap3 10y ago
seanp2k2 10y ago
Same with Uber IMO. If your startup is "disruptive" by virtue of doing something against the spirit of the law, do not misunderstand law to be some immutable code; even if people love your product, the disruptees will likely be pissed and whine to the government to change the letter of the law to match the spirit once again.
adevine 10y ago
pg has been consistent with this viewpoint, expressing the same sentiment when Austin voters rejected a proposition that would have done away with driver fingerprinting requirements for Uber and Lyft: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/731871426056065028 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/731871426056065028 If nothing else, the Austin case in particular is very interesting to me in that, with Uber and Lyft gone, there have been a flurry of startups and a non-profit in the rideshare space: Fare, Fasten, GetMe, Wingz, and the non-profit RideAustin. While none of them (yet) provide the hail times and low prices of Uber or Lyft, at the very least it is an interesting experiment in some different business models.
Spooky23 10y ago
I hate to disagree with someone like pg... He's a wise man. I think he should rent an apartment in a building that's been Airbnb'd for 90 days and revisit his opinion on day 91. "Incumbents" are people, trying to live peacefully.

hackaflocka 10y ago

Agreed, plus: just because something's a startup doesn't mean it should get automatic protection. If the mafia re-incorporates as a startup in NYC, does it become incumbent on NYC to protect it because it wants to be a "startup hub"?

dsl 10y ago
I call these "Uber Businesses." They only exist because they were able to raise capital and market share faster than the legal system could respond to them breaking laws.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  Exactly. I figure the same thing will happen with "we deliver gas to your vehicle" startups and others in the future.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

danhak 10y ago

PG's Tweet is pretty off-base and disingenuous. He makes it seem like AirBNB is being persecuted and that there are no legitimate grievances with the way AirBNB is negatively impacting local communities and housing markets. The city of Santa Monica banned certain short-term AirBNB rentals last year and remains one of the hottest tech hubs in the country: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/13/406587575/santa-monica-cracks-down-on-airbnb-bans-vacation-rentals-under-a-month http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/13/406587575/... Kudos to NY lawmakers for taking this step.

mtmail 10y ago

I agree. Is that the 2000 employee "startup" that recently got 1 billion via debt financing? /s (employee count source https://www.quora.com/How-many-employees-does-Airbnb-have-1 https://www.quora.com/How-many-employees-does-Airbnb-have-1)

ap3 10y ago

Why should not be able to advertise/rent your apartment on Airbnb?

chimeracoder 10y ago
> Why should not be able to advertise/rent your apartment on Airbnb? It's already been illegal to rent out a whole apartment for less than 30 days. The new law just extends that to advertising the unit. Basically, the law now prevents you from advertising a service that was already illegal.
rpgmaker 10y ago
There is a lot of stuff you can't do to your own house/apartment without violating some rule or law. This is old. Airbnb can be disruptive in many negative ways and not every community feels that the trade-offs of letting them do as they please are worth it.
seanp2k2 10y ago
For one, it's against every rental agreement I've ever signed (no subletting clause). Another reason people don't like it is due to the party people who frequently rent these, the extra parking spaces being used, people moving around at all hours, people not caring about the space because they don't own it, etc. Basically all the things which are incentivized in normal multi-month rental contracts which are not present in Airbnb contracts. People who live in an apartment building don't want a hotel room next to them.
- Idontagree 10y ago
  I agree with the sentiment that the people using Airbnb are not going to care like owners, but they're also going to be liable for damage caused just like in any other rental. Policing that, though, is surely a nightmare. Also how are extra parking spaces being used, I would assume if you rent out your rental, you're not going to leave your automobile there? I mean you might have multiple cars, but then that in itself is already causing congestion.
- ap3 10y ago

seanp2k2 10y ago

Same with Uber IMO. If your startup is "disruptive" by virtue of doing something against the spirit of the law, do not misunderstand law to be some immutable code; even if people love your product, the disruptees will likely be pissed and whine to the government to change the letter of the law to match the spirit once again.

adevine 10y ago

pg has been consistent with this viewpoint, expressing the same sentiment when Austin voters rejected a proposition that would have done away with driver fingerprinting requirements for Uber and Lyft: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/731871426056065028 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/731871426056065028 If nothing else, the Austin case in particular is very interesting to me in that, with Uber and Lyft gone, there have been a flurry of startups and a non-profit in the rideshare space: Fare, Fasten, GetMe, Wingz, and the non-profit RideAustin. While none of them (yet) provide the hail times and low prices of Uber or Lyft, at the very least it is an interesting experiment in some different business models.

Spooky23 10y ago

I hate to disagree with someone like pg... He's a wise man. I think he should rent an apartment in a building that's been Airbnb'd for 90 days and revisit his opinion on day 91. "Incumbents" are people, trying to live peacefully.