3 ms·

I see taxes as a sign of civilization.

the_ancient 10y ago
So you believe in order for there to be "civilization" there has to be massive institutional wide scale theft under constant threat of violence? You do not think very much of humanity do you?
- sgift 10y ago
  > You do not think very much of humanity do you? No, I don't. And looking into a history book for five minutes reminds me why. There is a reason that the tax system has been invented and is used basically everywhere (exceptions are failed states): Hoping to get the money needed for duties carried out by the government institutions on behalf of the state by charity does not work.
  - the_ancient 10y ago
    Libertarianism Is So Dangerous: https://youtu.be/NbNFJK1ZpVg https://youtu.be/NbNFJK1ZpVg
- yongjik 10y ago
  Funny, when someone is ill and cannot afford medicine, I don't see a lot of libertarians saying "Why does this happen? We need a system where people don't die of preventable disease!" I guess your notion of "thinking of humanity" is different from mine.
  - the_ancient 10y ago
    I image you do not speak to many libertarians then, because it is talked about alot, with a wide range of solutions. It is ironic you feel government is the only solution to the problem, when many people both in and out of the US die waiting on government care.
- dang 10y ago
  Please stop using Hacker News as an ideological platform and please stop posting flamewar-style comments to HN. This site is not for either of those things. They rapidly take threads off topic in predictable (i.e. uninteresting) ways, and degrade the quality of conversation.
  - the_ancient 10y ago
    I was not aware making true statements were now "Flameware-style" I guess Orwell was right In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
dexterdog 10y ago
So the amount is irrelevant?
- Maarten88 10y ago
  No, the amount correlates mostly with civilization. Some countries have more of it than others. The US, well...
  - zo1 10y ago
    Except when it's 100%, then everyone universally agrees that that represents indentured servitude, or outright slavery.
    - Maarten88 10y ago
      You got me there... there is a limit. But I think that limit is rather high, as long as it can be fairly collected, as evidenced by scandinavian and european countries, and maybe US in the sixties.
      - the_ancient 10y ago
        >>as long as it can be fairly collected I am sure your definition of "fair" is vastly different than mine, but I do wonder how you define "fair"
the_ancient 10y ago
and I see taxation as Violence. I believe we can Accomplish a lot with out Taxation. I think we can even have a Universal Basic Income with out taxation. Geo-Libertarians have long proposed such a plan creating Universal Basic Income Derived from Commons Rent I do not believe to have a civilization you must hold a gun to someones head and take a part of their labor or insert yourself in every financial transaction unethically taking a cut of that transaction like the mafia's protection racket...
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  Looking at the Austrian budget I cannot see how we could keep our standard of living and social systems and welfare state by cutting (let alone getting rid) of taxes. It would only benefit the rich and even then only if you are willing to live with crumbling infrastructure and poverty around you.
  - the_ancient 10y ago
    Well that is a complex issue with wide ranging solutions. My overall point though, even if you believe society is best serviced with High Taxation and large government social systems at least be honest and identify that taxation is infact theft, I am willing to debate the multiude of solution for social problem and wealth inequality but I am not willing to debate if taxation is theft. It is, there is no debate. To address the social systems and welfare, I personally believe these systems are largely need because of government. Government creates the problem it then uses taxes to "solve" A stateless or libertarian society does not benefit the rich, in fact strong central planning and control (aka government) ensure the rich stay rich. Smash the State, Eat the Rich: https://c4ss.org/content/30085 https://c4ss.org/content/30085

So you believe in order for there to be "civilization" there has to be massive institutional wide scale theft under constant threat of violence? You do not think very much of humanity do you?

sgift 10y ago
> You do not think very much of humanity do you? No, I don't. And looking into a history book for five minutes reminds me why. There is a reason that the tax system has been invented and is used basically everywhere (exceptions are failed states): Hoping to get the money needed for duties carried out by the government institutions on behalf of the state by charity does not work.
- the_ancient 10y ago
  Libertarianism Is So Dangerous: https://youtu.be/NbNFJK1ZpVg https://youtu.be/NbNFJK1ZpVg
yongjik 10y ago
Funny, when someone is ill and cannot afford medicine, I don't see a lot of libertarians saying "Why does this happen? We need a system where people don't die of preventable disease!" I guess your notion of "thinking of humanity" is different from mine.
- the_ancient 10y ago
  I image you do not speak to many libertarians then, because it is talked about alot, with a wide range of solutions. It is ironic you feel government is the only solution to the problem, when many people both in and out of the US die waiting on government care.
dang 10y ago
Please stop using Hacker News as an ideological platform and please stop posting flamewar-style comments to HN. This site is not for either of those things. They rapidly take threads off topic in predictable (i.e. uninteresting) ways, and degrade the quality of conversation.
- the_ancient 10y ago
  I was not aware making true statements were now "Flameware-style" I guess Orwell was right In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

dexterdog 10y ago

So the amount is irrelevant?

Maarten88 10y ago
No, the amount correlates mostly with civilization. Some countries have more of it than others. The US, well...
- zo1 10y ago
  Except when it's 100%, then everyone universally agrees that that represents indentured servitude, or outright slavery.
  - Maarten88 10y ago
    You got me there... there is a limit. But I think that limit is rather high, as long as it can be fairly collected, as evidenced by scandinavian and european countries, and maybe US in the sixties.
    - the_ancient 10y ago
      >>as long as it can be fairly collected I am sure your definition of "fair" is vastly different than mine, but I do wonder how you define "fair"

the_ancient 10y ago

and I see taxation as Violence. I believe we can Accomplish a lot with out Taxation. I think we can even have a Universal Basic Income with out taxation. Geo-Libertarians have long proposed such a plan creating Universal Basic Income Derived from Commons Rent I do not believe to have a civilization you must hold a gun to someones head and take a part of their labor or insert yourself in every financial transaction unethically taking a cut of that transaction like the mafia's protection racket...

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
Looking at the Austrian budget I cannot see how we could keep our standard of living and social systems and welfare state by cutting (let alone getting rid) of taxes. It would only benefit the rich and even then only if you are willing to live with crumbling infrastructure and poverty around you.
- the_ancient 10y ago
  Well that is a complex issue with wide ranging solutions. My overall point though, even if you believe society is best serviced with High Taxation and large government social systems at least be honest and identify that taxation is infact theft, I am willing to debate the multiude of solution for social problem and wealth inequality but I am not willing to debate if taxation is theft. It is, there is no debate. To address the social systems and welfare, I personally believe these systems are largely need because of government. Government creates the problem it then uses taxes to "solve" A stateless or libertarian society does not benefit the rich, in fact strong central planning and control (aka government) ensure the rich stay rich. Smash the State, Eat the Rich: https://c4ss.org/content/30085 https://c4ss.org/content/30085