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http://www.biznews.com/undictated/2015/05/13/elon-musk-the-billionaire-brutal-on-himself-brutal-as-a-boss/ http://www.biznews.com/undictated/2015/05/13/elon-mus

by x5n1 10y ago

http://www.biznews.com/undictated/2015/05/13/elon-musk-the-billionaire-brutal-on-himself-brutal-as-a-boss/ http://www.biznews.com/undictated/2015/05/13/elon-musk-the-b... Elon Musk can be brutal with himself and then he has to convince other people to join him and those who want to experience brutality or know how to be brutal with themselves, to meet his standard will do so. And that's about it. I don't think "forcing" this on the world is a bad thing, as it's more closer to the natural order of things in hunter gatherer societies than what we have right now. In Harrison Burgeon the problem is not that people are equal. It's that they are forced by the State to be equal. People naturally have their abilities and gifts. That's not the issue. The issue is when they can coerce other people not because of those, but because of money. And make them behave on certain terms that the people never agreed to. The people simply want money so they can maintain a certain class in society. Yes it will lead to a certain order but I don't see how that order is bad for society as a whole, compared to the current order. Other than well we won't go to space as fast or we won't get X product fast. We'll get there regardless. It's fine that we have shinning super stars, that we put in charge of other people, and we can do things quicker, better, faster, cheaper because of them. But those people actually end up making everyone around them and as a group society as a whole more miserable, to get the product or service based outcome. But I don't think those things would never get done without Elon Musk or Bill Gates or whoever. They would still get done in a different way and slower. And if we're not so brutal with exploiting everything, maybe there is enough time for that. Compare that to exploiting everything at an extremely quick rate and having to come up with solutions to those problems at quicker and quicker rates which just drives everyone and everything bonkers. It's like I want driving cars and strong AI right now. Well maybe you'll get those things right now and three generations down the line the earth won't be able to support natural life and everything will have to done artificially, and so life and everyone's behavior will be even more closely regulated, because it will all need to be produced and therefore will be owned and sold for profit. I think these are the sorts of trade-offs we're looking at with the way we're running things.

MawNicker 10y ago
> we won't get X product fast. I am also very sympathetic to this view. That the work would get done anyway if capitalism weren't aggressively "stimulating" us with an insidious short-term mindset. We will certainly get there regardless. It would be ideal to do it without all the externalities. But locking Elon Musk up in your utopia won't make him a constant beacon of happiness. I imagine he isn't alone in that regard. You're making a utilitarian trade that seems strikingly suboptimal. When you go off the spectrum of motivation, as Elon Musk has, you tend to get a little cranky. There needs to be a place for cranky people to work. We just can't let them dominate other people with their madness. There are plenty of willing converts. Lets actually get rid of slavery. Then there can be a flood of ex-Tesla workers if need be. I suspect Elon Musk would topple your utopia from the inside out before launching his space empire. Getting in his way is not the solution.
lucio 10y ago
Why is everybody talking as if the communist experiment wasn't already tried? If you forcibly remove "freedom" to keep the fruit of your labor, you'll get general misery and poverty. It's false that "things will be done but slowly", the reality is that things will not get done at all, meaning lack of everything and the distribution of misery. For real examples look into any communist country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHIcmoY3_lE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHIcmoY3_lE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_...
- petra 10y ago
  Nordic countries have very high taxes("taking away one's fruits of labor"), and manage to do well.
  - justratsinacoat 10y ago
    Shut the fuck up! The hivemind is speaking. Non-neoliberal perspectives are terrible and advocacy for them will be punished by context-free links and downvotes.
    - StevePerkins 10y ago
      There is a very vigorous balance between liberal and libertarian views on HN, and both sides tend to (mostly) strive toward thoughtful discussion. Please take this sort of thing to Reddit where it belongs.
      - justratsinacoat 10y ago
        Oh please. "DAE COMMUNISM EEEVVIIILL?! (oh I brought links to PROVE it; here's Robin Williams and a wiki about a book)" is thoughtful discussion, eh? It's the same kind of mindless upvotery as your appeal to HN's ostensibly high standard.
  - 10y ago

by x5n1 10y ago

MawNicker 10y ago

> we won't get X product fast. I am also very sympathetic to this view. That the work would get done anyway if capitalism weren't aggressively "stimulating" us with an insidious short-term mindset. We will certainly get there regardless. It would be ideal to do it without all the externalities. But locking Elon Musk up in your utopia won't make him a constant beacon of happiness. I imagine he isn't alone in that regard. You're making a utilitarian trade that seems strikingly suboptimal. When you go off the spectrum of motivation, as Elon Musk has, you tend to get a little cranky. There needs to be a place for cranky people to work. We just can't let them dominate other people with their madness. There are plenty of willing converts. Lets actually get rid of slavery. Then there can be a flood of ex-Tesla workers if need be. I suspect Elon Musk would topple your utopia from the inside out before launching his space empire. Getting in his way is not the solution.

lucio 10y ago

Why is everybody talking as if the communist experiment wasn't already tried? If you forcibly remove "freedom" to keep the fruit of your labor, you'll get general misery and poverty. It's false that "things will be done but slowly", the reality is that things will not get done at all, meaning lack of everything and the distribution of misery. For real examples look into any communist country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHIcmoY3_lE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHIcmoY3_lE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_...

petra 10y ago
Nordic countries have very high taxes("taking away one's fruits of labor"), and manage to do well.
- justratsinacoat 10y ago
  Shut the fuck up! The hivemind is speaking. Non-neoliberal perspectives are terrible and advocacy for them will be punished by context-free links and downvotes.
  - StevePerkins 10y ago
    There is a very vigorous balance between liberal and libertarian views on HN, and both sides tend to (mostly) strive toward thoughtful discussion. Please take this sort of thing to Reddit where it belongs.
    - justratsinacoat 10y ago
      Oh please. "DAE COMMUNISM EEEVVIIILL?! (oh I brought links to PROVE it; here's Robin Williams and a wiki about a book)" is thoughtful discussion, eh? It's the same kind of mindless upvotery as your appeal to HN's ostensibly high standard.
- 10y ago