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It's not misconception. Requirement to setup some proprietary software just to download your games makes Steam DRM no matter if it's enforced after download or

by SXX 10y ago

It's not misconception. Requirement to setup some proprietary software just to download your games makes Steam DRM no matter if it's enforced after download or no. Currently everything needed is reverse enginered so you can actually download games using open source tool, but I pretty sure this is forbidden by Steam EULA. Even if we all know Valve will unlikely enforce it it's still gray area you don't want depend on.

Cyph0n 10y ago
I'll have to disagree, as I think you're taking the concept of DRM way too far. The fact that you need a client to download your game is not DRM, but it is inconvenient I suppose. DRM comes in when you cannot distribute your purchased game freely, and you're limited to a set number of PCs or installs. Still disagree? Let's look at GoG, the standard DRM-free game store. You need to login before you can download your games, correct? Would you call that a form of DRM? The difference between logging in and downloading a client is negligible in this day and age imo. If you don't agree with any of the above, then I'm afraid that the way you think of DRM-free gaming is only achievable through piracy.
- optforfon 10y ago
  How are logging in and installing someone's software even remotely similar? I personally find Steam, buggy, ugly, intrusive and effectively spyware that is logging and tracking god knows what. I feel very uncomfortable installing it on my machines and in general having to go through software A to get to software B makes a lot of people uncomfortable. By contrast, logging in confines the the website to tracking my activity on the website itself - which they probably can do with a cookie anyways...
  - wtallis 10y ago
    > I feel very uncomfortable installing it on my machines and in general having to go through software A to get to software B makes a lot of people uncomfortable. The only difference between Steam and GoG is that GoG runs software A on their servers and in your browser, whereas Steam runs software A on your machine in the custom-skinned browser they give you. Any security or privacy ramifications of the two different approaches are quit irrelevant to a discussion of whether it constitutes DRM in the generally accepted sense of technical measures to prevent you from copying, sharing, etc. digital content that you already have in your possession. It's not DRM to require some authentication before they'll serve up the download to you. DRM is what gets in the way after the download.
    - optforfon 10y ago
      I think I understand the distinction you're making. However I think it's only technically correct. I understand that I can boot up a VM with Steam, download the game, copy it from the VM to my machine that doesn't their software and it'll probably work. But that's in the realm of "technically possible but completely impractical". In practical terms I actuality have to run their software on my machine to have access to the software I buy through them.
      - wtallis 10y ago
        The only difference between Steam and GoG is that your browser is already providing the VM to sandbox (albeit without hardware enforcement) GoG's code running on your machine, while for Steam you have to supply your own VM if you want that degree of isolation. (If you happened to be running Qubes OS then this matter of degrees of convenience would be trivial.) In either case, running some of the store's code on your machine in order to obtain the product is unavoidable. In neither case is it DRM.
  - flamethroeaway 10y ago
    You cab launch the client and immediately go into offline mode if you are concerned about your privacy
nl 10y ago
That isn't what DRM is. Proprietary APIs are a completely separate issue. You can have open source DRM (for example hardware enforced schemes).

by SXX 10y ago

Cyph0n 10y ago

I'll have to disagree, as I think you're taking the concept of DRM way too far. The fact that you need a client to download your game is not DRM, but it is inconvenient I suppose. DRM comes in when you cannot distribute your purchased game freely, and you're limited to a set number of PCs or installs. Still disagree? Let's look at GoG, the standard DRM-free game store. You need to login before you can download your games, correct? Would you call that a form of DRM? The difference between logging in and downloading a client is negligible in this day and age imo. If you don't agree with any of the above, then I'm afraid that the way you think of DRM-free gaming is only achievable through piracy.

optforfon 10y ago
How are logging in and installing someone's software even remotely similar? I personally find Steam, buggy, ugly, intrusive and effectively spyware that is logging and tracking god knows what. I feel very uncomfortable installing it on my machines and in general having to go through software A to get to software B makes a lot of people uncomfortable. By contrast, logging in confines the the website to tracking my activity on the website itself - which they probably can do with a cookie anyways...
- wtallis 10y ago
  > I feel very uncomfortable installing it on my machines and in general having to go through software A to get to software B makes a lot of people uncomfortable. The only difference between Steam and GoG is that GoG runs software A on their servers and in your browser, whereas Steam runs software A on your machine in the custom-skinned browser they give you. Any security or privacy ramifications of the two different approaches are quit irrelevant to a discussion of whether it constitutes DRM in the generally accepted sense of technical measures to prevent you from copying, sharing, etc. digital content that you already have in your possession. It's not DRM to require some authentication before they'll serve up the download to you. DRM is what gets in the way after the download.
  - optforfon 10y ago
    I think I understand the distinction you're making. However I think it's only technically correct. I understand that I can boot up a VM with Steam, download the game, copy it from the VM to my machine that doesn't their software and it'll probably work. But that's in the realm of "technically possible but completely impractical". In practical terms I actuality have to run their software on my machine to have access to the software I buy through them.
    - wtallis 10y ago
      The only difference between Steam and GoG is that your browser is already providing the VM to sandbox (albeit without hardware enforcement) GoG's code running on your machine, while for Steam you have to supply your own VM if you want that degree of isolation. (If you happened to be running Qubes OS then this matter of degrees of convenience would be trivial.) In either case, running some of the store's code on your machine in order to obtain the product is unavoidable. In neither case is it DRM.
- flamethroeaway 10y ago
  You cab launch the client and immediately go into offline mode if you are concerned about your privacy

nl 10y ago

That isn't what DRM is. Proprietary APIs are a completely separate issue. You can have open source DRM (for example hardware enforced schemes).