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What's the relation between UFOs and aliens? If you have evidence of one or more UFOs how are you relating them to aliens? Why not just magic or secret super he

What's the relation between UFOs and aliens? If you have evidence of one or more UFOs how are you relating them to aliens? Why not just magic or secret super heroes?

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
GP post was talking about aliens and UFOs, and parent post claimed there is no evidence (thus no science). I was pointing out that we do have relatively credible evidence for UFOs (but not aliens), i.e. lack of evidence is not why there is no scientific papers on the topic of UFOs. I think the most likely explanation of most of these are classified aircraft of some sort.
chmike 10y ago
There are plenty of evidence provided you don't reject them a priori. 1. there are plenty witness accounts reporting non human beings seen in proximity of UFOs. 2. Betty Hill map (abduction case) matches our solar system and shows a ring around jupiter witch was only discovered many years after the drawing was made by voyager. 3. Behavior and flying capabilities of UFOs far beyond human technology capability. 4. Inductive research on possible propulsion principle made by Prof. Meessen led to a theory where Pulsed Electro Magnetic Propulsion would be used. The author derived an innovative mechanism to produce very intense oscillating EM fields using only supra conducting surface on the object. This supraconductivity must work at high temperature which humans don't master yet. This supraconductive shell is also protecting living bodies and devices on bord from the intense external EM field. 5. Some photos of UFOs show black rings around the object which might result from polarization of light resulting from the very high EM field which humans can't produce. This data allows to infer properties of the EM field. 6. Compass rotation reported on military ships while a UFO was seen. A study by Prof. Meessen explained that this is produced by oscillating EM fields in low frequency range. Considering the estimated UFO distance the magnetic field must have been of many Tesla. Humans can't produce such oscillating magnetic intensities. A referree rejected the submited article presenting this study result partly because this EM was too strong in his opinion and not feasible. Etc. Etc. Of course there is no proof. But there is plenty evidence and now we have at least one theory that can be tested in a lab. The described propulsion method is still unreachable to humans because we don't master supraconductivity at high temperature, but we can now test experimentally the validity of the theory. Ufology has been censored for many years as research topic with the consequence that very few people are correctly informed on it. They claim there is no evidence but objectively they should say they don't know about the evidences and scientific research on this topic. Skeptics do a lot of noise to hide the facts and work. My knowledge of the UFO phenomenon is different as I'm very close to Prof. Auguste Meessen. Here are the articles presenting his theory on the PEMP [1](http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Propulsion.pdf http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Propulsion.pdf) [2](http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Evidence.pdf http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Evidence.pdf) [3](http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Production.pdf http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Production.pdf).
- effingwewt 10y ago
  For the record, anything can be "evidence". Eyewitness, secondhand etc are all circumstantial anway. Ufology could easily be considered akin to bigfootology.
  - chmike 10y ago
    That is not correct. There is a huge difference in the data set size and as a cinsequence bigfootology doesn't provide as many grips for scientific research. In ufology there is enough data to find testable information allowing to deduce/induce insight on the phenomenon. The Betty Hill map is one such example. The testimony of Betty and Barney Hill is not testable and could be fully imaginary. But the map is data that can be tested. And many scientists did test it. Many scientists searched a correspondance with a set of stars. Many where found but the one of Zeta Reticuli got the most instense PR. It must be noted that there is a circle in the center of the BH map which hasn't any matching star. Some reproductions of the map have removed the circle to "solve" the problem. Karl Sagan said that would found many many matching set of stars because the number of stars is so high. He is right. The discovery of Koch and Kyborg, is that the map shows our own solar system. Their reasonning is that the the two big circles crossed with a curved line could be rings. The other argument is the circonstance in whitch the map was shown. Betty just asked to the leader where they came from. The leader asked back, "what do you know of space?". She said she now the 9 planets of our solar system that she learned in school. The leader than show the map and asked where is earth. She said she didn't know. The leader than said "so what is the point to tel you where we come from?". Koch and Kyborg deduced that this map could correspond to our solar system. They check this is and fiund the match. The two big circles correspond to saturn and jupiter. The cent circle not connected with a line is the sun. Make sens that there is no connection to it. The small circle below tje sun is mars. The configuration of the planets correspond to the month Betty and Barned were abducted. Well not exactly, mercure which is rotation very fast around the sun was 120° of position. But Koch and Kyborg suspected that there could have been more than one abduction. The testimony is not incompatible with that. What I found with a colleague is that no human new at the time the map was drawn that Jupiter had a ring. This is for me a strong evidence that the story could be true. Then there are the rotating compass. There are also many instrumental recordîgs. And from all this data, it was possible to elaborate a theory explaining a possible propulsion mechanism. This is inductive research methodology and how science made the most breaking through discoveries. This theory implies that ufos are using high temperature supraconductivity. Then there is the energy source which is also something that we don't master. The energy they spend that could be deduced from some testimonies is huge. Humans don't master a method allowing them to produce such amount of energy. Peolpe who say there is no evidence or there is not more evidence than with bigfoot are ignorent or suspectfully dishonnest. The taboo in the media and scientific journals induce a reenforcing ignorence of this research subject.

What's the relation between UFOs and aliens? If you have evidence of one or more UFOs how are you relating them to aliens? Why not just magic or secret super heroes?

semi-extrinsic 10y ago

GP post was talking about aliens and UFOs, and parent post claimed there is no evidence (thus no science). I was pointing out that we do have relatively credible evidence for UFOs (but not aliens), i.e. lack of evidence is not why there is no scientific papers on the topic of UFOs. I think the most likely explanation of most of these are classified aircraft of some sort.

chmike 10y ago

There are plenty of evidence provided you don't reject them a priori. 1. there are plenty witness accounts reporting non human beings seen in proximity of UFOs. 2. Betty Hill map (abduction case) matches our solar system and shows a ring around jupiter witch was only discovered many years after the drawing was made by voyager. 3. Behavior and flying capabilities of UFOs far beyond human technology capability. 4. Inductive research on possible propulsion principle made by Prof. Meessen led to a theory where Pulsed Electro Magnetic Propulsion would be used. The author derived an innovative mechanism to produce very intense oscillating EM fields using only supra conducting surface on the object. This supraconductivity must work at high temperature which humans don't master yet. This supraconductive shell is also protecting living bodies and devices on bord from the intense external EM field. 5. Some photos of UFOs show black rings around the object which might result from polarization of light resulting from the very high EM field which humans can't produce. This data allows to infer properties of the EM field. 6. Compass rotation reported on military ships while a UFO was seen. A study by Prof. Meessen explained that this is produced by oscillating EM fields in low frequency range. Considering the estimated UFO distance the magnetic field must have been of many Tesla. Humans can't produce such oscillating magnetic intensities. A referree rejected the submited article presenting this study result partly because this EM was too strong in his opinion and not feasible. Etc. Etc. Of course there is no proof. But there is plenty evidence and now we have at least one theory that can be tested in a lab. The described propulsion method is still unreachable to humans because we don't master supraconductivity at high temperature, but we can now test experimentally the validity of the theory. Ufology has been censored for many years as research topic with the consequence that very few people are correctly informed on it. They claim there is no evidence but objectively they should say they don't know about the evidences and scientific research on this topic. Skeptics do a lot of noise to hide the facts and work. My knowledge of the UFO phenomenon is different as I'm very close to Prof. Auguste Meessen. Here are the articles presenting his theory on the PEMP [1](http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Propulsion.pdf http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Propulsion.pdf) [2](http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Evidence.pdf http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Evidence.pdf) [3](http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Production.pdf http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/Production.pdf).

effingwewt 10y ago
For the record, anything can be "evidence". Eyewitness, secondhand etc are all circumstantial anway. Ufology could easily be considered akin to bigfootology.
- chmike 10y ago
  That is not correct. There is a huge difference in the data set size and as a cinsequence bigfootology doesn't provide as many grips for scientific research. In ufology there is enough data to find testable information allowing to deduce/induce insight on the phenomenon. The Betty Hill map is one such example. The testimony of Betty and Barney Hill is not testable and could be fully imaginary. But the map is data that can be tested. And many scientists did test it. Many scientists searched a correspondance with a set of stars. Many where found but the one of Zeta Reticuli got the most instense PR. It must be noted that there is a circle in the center of the BH map which hasn't any matching star. Some reproductions of the map have removed the circle to "solve" the problem. Karl Sagan said that would found many many matching set of stars because the number of stars is so high. He is right. The discovery of Koch and Kyborg, is that the map shows our own solar system. Their reasonning is that the the two big circles crossed with a curved line could be rings. The other argument is the circonstance in whitch the map was shown. Betty just asked to the leader where they came from. The leader asked back, "what do you know of space?". She said she now the 9 planets of our solar system that she learned in school. The leader than show the map and asked where is earth. She said she didn't know. The leader than said "so what is the point to tel you where we come from?". Koch and Kyborg deduced that this map could correspond to our solar system. They check this is and fiund the match. The two big circles correspond to saturn and jupiter. The cent circle not connected with a line is the sun. Make sens that there is no connection to it. The small circle below tje sun is mars. The configuration of the planets correspond to the month Betty and Barned were abducted. Well not exactly, mercure which is rotation very fast around the sun was 120° of position. But Koch and Kyborg suspected that there could have been more than one abduction. The testimony is not incompatible with that. What I found with a colleague is that no human new at the time the map was drawn that Jupiter had a ring. This is for me a strong evidence that the story could be true. Then there are the rotating compass. There are also many instrumental recordîgs. And from all this data, it was possible to elaborate a theory explaining a possible propulsion mechanism. This is inductive research methodology and how science made the most breaking through discoveries. This theory implies that ufos are using high temperature supraconductivity. Then there is the energy source which is also something that we don't master. The energy they spend that could be deduced from some testimonies is huge. Humans don't master a method allowing them to produce such amount of energy. Peolpe who say there is no evidence or there is not more evidence than with bigfoot are ignorent or suspectfully dishonnest. The taboo in the media and scientific journals induce a reenforcing ignorence of this research subject.