5 ms·
Jury awards $22m to man locked in closet by police for four days
- solotronics 10y agoits too bad the people of this city have to pay for these damages and not the actual police involved.
- jdavis703 10y agoMaybe then the people will vote in a government that cleans up this mess then. In a democracy I think it's fair to hold the people liable when the government they elect does something wrong (however it should probably be based on a pattern of violations, not "one bad apple").
- mtgx 10y agoEasier said than done in a country that doesn't value the idea of having multiple parties (and therefore real competition between them). What do you do when one party is racist and the other protects criminal cops? Or worse, if both protect criminal cops, and other government criminals?
- jdavis703 10y agoThere's no excuse for a dual or single-party system in muni-level politics. In Oakland, CA (and probably other cities) they use non-partisan IRV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting).
- terravion 10y agoOakland resident here. Oakland's IRV is terrible because we have no idea who will win the election and even as a relatively informed voter I have no idea who most of the 30-ish mayoral candidates are or what they stand for. I think Oakland shows elections work both ways. One way, we pick leaders who represent our deeply held views. The other, elections force us, the electorate, to face facts about what combination of policies produces a workable governing consensus, and maybe even changes our views to create a consensus. When it comes to Oakland mayor, we just randomly declare a preference in the dark and someone is declared winner with no real way to form a coalition. California's new top two system on the other hand is great. In liberal or conservative areas we get offered two meaningful choices that reflect the ideological split in the area. That is, do we want to be radical progressives or just pro-business liberals? Alternately are we reactionary conservatives or more just chamber of commerce Republicans? This gives real choice to the general election electorate and helps forge meaningful consensus.
- randyrand 10y agoIt's a democratic republic. Unions are not democracies either, yet are incredibly strong.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- lolc 10y agoIt's fitting in a way. They handed power to assholes and didn't check back. Though if I read this correctly, some of it will not be paid by the city: "East Cleveland Police Chief Ralph Spotts did not appear at trial. [...] Of the other $12 million in punitive damages, $11 million was found against Spotts himself, DiCello said."
- millzlane 10y agoHow does a traffic stop turn into assault, kidnapping, and false imprisonment. Why has this become a norm? The police have a duty to protects us from these exact crimes. If they commit the crimes themselves and we just pay them on admin leave because they deserve due process too. How can we resolve this? Whats to prevent them from doing it. Jailing them isn't working. We are jailing them right? Will it ever stop? We're essentially paying for them to commit crime that we end up paying for with settlements. It takes away from other things in the budget. The city pays settlements, now the city needs money for school programs, and the rest of the public services. Police are working overtime. They get stressed out. They beat some guy up and then the cycle starts over again. The city in turn needs state money, the state needs federal money. They don't have it so they print more up. Somewhere in another part of the country is another state sucking dick for federal money. It's one of the many reasons our deficit is the way it is. At what point do we say enough is enough. We can't keep spending money on this shit. Where is the accountability? I apologize for being crass. But we're literally paying for all of it.
- Jgrubb 10y agoI think the best solution I've heard is the one where instead of taxpayers paying out for the misdeeds of the police, police are required to carry something like malpractice insurance. When these awards are given, they come out of the insurance pool and that officer's cost of carrying the insurance goes up. Repeated offenders are priced out of the market and can't be police without the insurance. Taxpayers don't have to foot this bill anymore. Thoughts?
- djKianoosh 10y agoCurious. Is this how it works for other professions? Like doctors/lawyers/engineers/teachers? Sounds good at first blush.
- vernie 10y agoYes, the term "malpractice insurance" refers specifically to medical professionals.
- headShrinker 10y agoThe two words are generally understood. The term might currently only be used by one industry. The term can be used by any industry. Malpractice isn't industry specific nor is insurance.
- DrScump 10y agoIn the USA, anyway, malpractice insurance can apply to lawyers as well: http://www.americanbar.org/portals/solo_lawyers/going_solo/malpractice_insurance.html http://www.americanbar.org/portals/solo_lawyers/going_solo/m...
- DrScump 10y agoIt's a distinction without a difference -- most such large city governments are self-insuring.
- headShrinker 10y ago
- Camillo 10y ago$22m is insane. Hopefully it will be reduced on appeal to something more reasonable, like $220k. On the other hand, there should be criminal charges against the cops.
- DrScump 10y agoIn an earlier article, the city attorney said that she was never properly served, and therefore no defense was mounted.
- sthu11182 10y agoI haven't check here, but when you sue a state or a city, they usually have stringent rules on service (i.e., a form must be filed with 30 days of incident).
- wl 10y ago$22 million is very reasonable. There is no excuse for the behavior at issue here. The amount provides a very strong incentive to the city of East Cleveland to never let anything like this happen again. It puts other police departments on notice that things like this can destroy them. Unfortunately, this probably will be significantly reduced on appeal.
- ubersync 10y agoLet's put this another way. Would you, if given the option, go through this humiliation for 220k? I wouldn't. Not even for 2 million.
- jacquesm 10y agoSo, how come none of these officers and their superiors are facing criminal charges themselves? There have to be some limits of what you can get away with while wearing a badge.
- jostmey 10y ago*$%! the money, the officers should be in jail. Quote: "The city of East Cleveland told WJW television that the officers named in the suit no longer work at the department."
- namuol 10y agoWhy the hell aren't the officers involved being tried for criminal activity?
- fiiauuuush 10y agoBecause the victim was provided "shut up" money courtesy the tax payers.
- fiiiau 10y agoBecause the victim was provided "shut up" money courtesy the tax payer.
- fsloth 10y agoUh, how common is it for police to hold people like that? Is there some racist undertone here not mentioned in the article? Or do they just bully people randomly? I know when traveling one should avoid seedier parts of town but now apparently one should avoid the police as well if and when I come visit the states...?
- millzlane 10y agoNot very common. But you're right you do not want to be in the seedier parts of town. It's usually random as they pick and choose, they're not stupid. I live in one of the seediest parts in a small major city in the north east. And the police will stop you for being a different color. Yep you guessed it...white. My friends have been stopped multiple times for those exact reasons. or because they have a shitty car, or seemed disoriented because they're not familiar with the one way traps.
- azinman2 10y agoHere in the nice parts of the bay area my friend who is black is pulled over once a month because he drives a Lexus SUV, and the police don't believe that it's his car. They ask him "is this your car?" He'll reply, "yes," to which they always ask "are you sure?" Every month.
- millzlane 10y agoI can relate. I'm biracial and I'm stopped often with a branded company polo and they're always amusingly surprised to learn I work in IT but live in the ghetto.
- khedoros 10y agoThis level of abuse is rare. The victim is black. It's possible that this was an example of racial profiling, or that he'd had previous contact with the police. I don't know the whole situation. The U.S. is a large country, and local police departments are managed by themselves, so there's a lot of local and regional variation, but within the bounds you'd expect from "humans that self-selected for a position of power and authority". It's hard to make a categorical statement beyond "Beware those with power over you."
- curiousgal 10y agoI doubt he'll get the $22 mi. l Daniel Chong[0] was held five days in a very similar situation in California. He only got $4 mil. Younger guy, drank his own piss, broke his eye glasses and wrote 'sorry mom' on his arm when he thought he was going to die. Kidneys were close to shutting down when they let him out. Makes me sick and angry. Stories like this are why people hate cops. No excuse for this. 0.http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/30/justice/california-dea-settlement/ http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/30/justice/california-dea-set...
- nzealand 10y ago>One of the police officers named in the suit, Det. Randy Hicks, testified on behalf of Black after the city filed a lawsuit against him. The detective corroborated the allegations against himself and the department, according to Attorney Rob DiCello. It is unusual for a police officer to incriminate himself. > When asked to produce evidence from the traffic stop in the discovery phase of the trial, the city of East Cleveland told a judge overseeing Black's civil suit that they did not have dash cam video or police reports from the incident, DiCello said If Hicks hadn't incriminated himself, it sounds like there was no evidence to support Blacks claims. > Black also testified that the officers put him in the storage closet to hide the severity of his injuries. Normally if the police injure a suspect, the police charge the injured suspect with assaulting an officer. > Hicks testified at the civil trial that Police Chief Ralph Spotts confronted him several days after Black's arrest and forced him to resign. Hicks also testified that Spotts encouraged a culture of violence within the East Cleveland Police Department. Hicks must have been offered some sort of amnesty.
- lake99 10y ago> It is unusual for a police officer to incriminate himself. I don't know how the system works, but from what I have learnt from TV & movies, I guess took the deal to confess, in exchange for a lighter sentence. > If Hicks hadn't incriminated himself, it sounds like there was no evidence to support Blacks claims. We already know Black was locked up, bruised, and who his arresting officers were. I seriously doubt if Hicks testified out of the goodness of his heart.