5 ms·

94-year-old former guard at the Auschwitz death camp sentenced

10 points by enitihas 10y ago

zkett 10y ago
what prompted/drove the trial? a local prosecutor/official, public comments by the defendant? not trying to imply it should not have taken place, merely curious about the circumstance.
- grahamel 10y ago
  The article says "That changed with the 2011 conviction of John Demjanjuk, when a judge concluded that his activities as a camp worker in Nazi-occupied Poland amounted to complicity in mass murder." Also in a Guardian article[1] "The prosecution’s case has been built on the premise that, however low his rank, Hanning’s presence at Auschwitz made him part of the Nazi death machine and that he should therefore share responsibility for the Holocaust" And from a Time article[2] it says he was "initially assigned to register work details, away from the killing, but he later took a post in the guard tower" and "In his statement in court, Hanning did not describe witnessing selections or any personal involvement in killing. But he did admit to knowing about it. " [1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/17/auschwitz-guard-set-to-hear-verdict-in-holocaust-trial https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/17/auschwitz-guar... [2]http://time.com/nazi-trials/ http://time.com/nazi-trials/
- creshal 10y ago
  Organizations like the Simon Wiesenthal Center assemble lists of known war criminals[1] and then forward them to police in Germany and other countries, who then assess the charges and, if found valid, try to press them (assuming they can still find the accused). It's a slow process, and one or two turn up every year. [2] has the arrest of a similar case. The case that set the precedent for these was John Demjanjuk[3], which, while so long that he died before the final hearings, cleared up the legal situation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Most_Wanted_Nazi_War_Criminals_according_to_the_Simon_Wiesenthal_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Most_Wanted_Nazi_War_C... [2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22427976 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22427976 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demjanjuk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demjanjuk
akras14 10y ago
Does anybody know why he only now went to trial?
- ekianjo 10y ago
  Nazis were judged at Nurnberg already and most of the time only the higher ranking officers were severely punished. Judging complicity 75 years after the facts is purely a political move.
- lucozade 10y ago
  Up until about ten years ago, the general approach was to find and prosecute those who were responsible for the Holocaust i.e. made decisions that caused or prolonged it, or those who actively participated in atrocities. For example, the Eichmann trial was controversial at the time because he was involved in transport and not the camps directly even though he was a colonel (it was also controversial for a number of other reasons). That approach changed to include those who were present but with no evidence of direct involvement. The Demjanjuk conviction gave confidence to prosecutors that this was a viable strategy. Given the age of the defendants, there's been a certain amount of urgency to accelerate these prosecutions. I have some reservations about this change of tack. It plays to a narrative that the prosecutions are vindictive and a sign of desperation. With the spread of neo-Nazism in Europe, making ex-Nazis and SS appear as victims seems very risky to me.
venomsnake 10y ago
> Grudda sentenced Hanning, who was 23 when he started two years of work at the concentration camp in 1942, to five years jail for being an accessory to murder of 170,000 people. How is 15 minutes of jail time per murder just? Can the collective HN wisdom also help me understand what is a 23 years old (as he was in 1942) supposed to do in the situation and stop the atrocities?
- onion2k 10y ago
  Can the collective HN wisdom also help me understand what is a 23 years old (as he was in 1942) supposed to do in the situation and stop the atrocities? There's nothing he could have done to stop the atrocities, but he could have said no to having a part in them himself. That would have meant facing the death penalty for subversion[1], but there were Germans who did say no, and were executed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrkraftzersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrkraftzersetzung
  - mmrezaie 10y ago
    But wouldn't the decision between life and death take some of the responsibility of that person. For example basing on a fact that I have been forced or I would have been killed. I am just curious! Also, it is amazing how words in Deutsch become so long. It is hard for my eyes to detect the parts.
  - creshal 10y ago
    The vast majority who refused were, in fact, not executed: http://imgur.com/T0gHUTh http://imgur.com/T0gHUTh
- creshal 10y ago
  > How is 15 minutes of jail time per murder just? Justice isn't revenge. And to be honest, for a 94 year old, 5 years is effectively life long. (Germany has none of that "30,000 years prison term" silliness.) > Can the collective HN wisdom also help me understand what is a 23 years old (as he was in 1942) supposed to do in the situation and stop the atrocities? Not participating would be a good start (the SS was a volunteer organization at that point). Trying to get people out of it even better. For some reason it's not particularly well-known, but the German populace did manage to sabotage one of the Nazis' genocide: Aktion T4 was scaled down and partially cancelled after broad resistance formed at every level of society and administration. The holocaust wouldn't have been nearly as deadly if people had resisted more.

10 points by enitihas 10y ago

zkett 10y ago

what prompted/drove the trial? a local prosecutor/official, public comments by the defendant? not trying to imply it should not have taken place, merely curious about the circumstance.

grahamel 10y ago
The article says "That changed with the 2011 conviction of John Demjanjuk, when a judge concluded that his activities as a camp worker in Nazi-occupied Poland amounted to complicity in mass murder." Also in a Guardian article[1] "The prosecution’s case has been built on the premise that, however low his rank, Hanning’s presence at Auschwitz made him part of the Nazi death machine and that he should therefore share responsibility for the Holocaust" And from a Time article[2] it says he was "initially assigned to register work details, away from the killing, but he later took a post in the guard tower" and "In his statement in court, Hanning did not describe witnessing selections or any personal involvement in killing. But he did admit to knowing about it. " [1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/17/auschwitz-guard-set-to-hear-verdict-in-holocaust-trial https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/17/auschwitz-guar... [2]http://time.com/nazi-trials/ http://time.com/nazi-trials/
creshal 10y ago
Organizations like the Simon Wiesenthal Center assemble lists of known war criminals[1] and then forward them to police in Germany and other countries, who then assess the charges and, if found valid, try to press them (assuming they can still find the accused). It's a slow process, and one or two turn up every year. [2] has the arrest of a similar case. The case that set the precedent for these was John Demjanjuk[3], which, while so long that he died before the final hearings, cleared up the legal situation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Most_Wanted_Nazi_War_Criminals_according_to_the_Simon_Wiesenthal_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Most_Wanted_Nazi_War_C... [2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22427976 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22427976 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demjanjuk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demjanjuk

akras14 10y ago

Does anybody know why he only now went to trial?

ekianjo 10y ago
Nazis were judged at Nurnberg already and most of the time only the higher ranking officers were severely punished. Judging complicity 75 years after the facts is purely a political move.
lucozade 10y ago
Up until about ten years ago, the general approach was to find and prosecute those who were responsible for the Holocaust i.e. made decisions that caused or prolonged it, or those who actively participated in atrocities. For example, the Eichmann trial was controversial at the time because he was involved in transport and not the camps directly even though he was a colonel (it was also controversial for a number of other reasons). That approach changed to include those who were present but with no evidence of direct involvement. The Demjanjuk conviction gave confidence to prosecutors that this was a viable strategy. Given the age of the defendants, there's been a certain amount of urgency to accelerate these prosecutions. I have some reservations about this change of tack. It plays to a narrative that the prosecutions are vindictive and a sign of desperation. With the spread of neo-Nazism in Europe, making ex-Nazis and SS appear as victims seems very risky to me.

venomsnake 10y ago

> Grudda sentenced Hanning, who was 23 when he started two years of work at the concentration camp in 1942, to five years jail for being an accessory to murder of 170,000 people. How is 15 minutes of jail time per murder just? Can the collective HN wisdom also help me understand what is a 23 years old (as he was in 1942) supposed to do in the situation and stop the atrocities?

onion2k 10y ago
Can the collective HN wisdom also help me understand what is a 23 years old (as he was in 1942) supposed to do in the situation and stop the atrocities? There's nothing he could have done to stop the atrocities, but he could have said no to having a part in them himself. That would have meant facing the death penalty for subversion[1], but there were Germans who did say no, and were executed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrkraftzersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrkraftzersetzung
- mmrezaie 10y ago
  But wouldn't the decision between life and death take some of the responsibility of that person. For example basing on a fact that I have been forced or I would have been killed. I am just curious! Also, it is amazing how words in Deutsch become so long. It is hard for my eyes to detect the parts.
- creshal 10y ago
  The vast majority who refused were, in fact, not executed: http://imgur.com/T0gHUTh http://imgur.com/T0gHUTh
creshal 10y ago
> How is 15 minutes of jail time per murder just? Justice isn't revenge. And to be honest, for a 94 year old, 5 years is effectively life long. (Germany has none of that "30,000 years prison term" silliness.) > Can the collective HN wisdom also help me understand what is a 23 years old (as he was in 1942) supposed to do in the situation and stop the atrocities? Not participating would be a good start (the SS was a volunteer organization at that point). Trying to get people out of it even better. For some reason it's not particularly well-known, but the German populace did manage to sabotage one of the Nazis' genocide: Aktion T4 was scaled down and partially cancelled after broad resistance formed at every level of society and administration. The holocaust wouldn't have been nearly as deadly if people had resisted more.