4 ms·

The most prevalent domestic 'smart' devices (dishwashers? washing machines? automatic transmissions? electric refrigeration?) were once-new concepts in the last

The most prevalent domestic 'smart' devices (dishwashers? washing machines? automatic transmissions? electric refrigeration?) were once-new concepts in the last 100 years, but have become almost invisible today. They don't shout "smart," and that's OK, but they all integrate a bit of control logic that helps the user do something easier/better/cheaper/faster than was possible before. That's how I define "smart" -- I think the network-connected / software aspect is more of an implementation detail. I really don't want a smart blender or a smart fridge. But a 'smart' thermostat? Might save energy (and money). A 'smart' sprinkler or lighting control system? Might save water or energy (and money). A 'smart' door lock? Might save time and effort getting keys copied or locks changed or letting in guests while away. A 'smart' frying pan? Might cook a salmon fillet to perfection every time and let me master new recipes the first time. Does the reality of today's smart devices match the potential? Unclear. But if 'smart' means something that will give me, the user, a superior value -- defined very conventionally and rationally, such as saving time, saving money, making something higher quality, or making something easier -- and if the superior value outweighs the added complexity and cost, then maybe I'll take a look. (Disclaimer: I make a "smart" frying pan but am not particularly in love with the word "smart." It simply helps people cook easier/better/cheaper/faster. https://www.pantelligent.com/ https://www.pantelligent.com/ - comments of all kinds are welcome.)

derefr 10y ago
A "smart" refrigerator theoretically saves you money by reducing waste; a long-marketed feature for a hypothetical smart-fridge is that it tracks when you bought stuff and also knows, for each food item, how urgent it is to consume—and thus, could make meal suggestions for the sake of "using stuff up." The thing is, that logic doesn't need to be in a fridge; it could just as well be in a grocery-delivery phone app or something. It just seems like a fridge is the place to put it because fridges hold food. So we keep trying to imagine smart fridges, instead of imagining more ambient software to achieve the same purpose—e.g. a "home guru" app for the Amazon Echo that would just tell you, the human, to go do something in your home at the right time for it to have an optimal effect.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  Also if 'smart'-grid technology gets implemented it can time it's cooling cycles to when energy is cheaper. Saving money that way.
  - jpitz 10y ago
    You'd need to store chilled water or something similar in order to do that....
    - ams6110 10y ago
      ... which would eventually leak out all over (and under) your floor and cause potentially thousands of dollars in damage. Ask me how I know. No water connected to my fridge, thanks.
pessimizer 10y ago
> The most prevalent domestic 'smart' devices (dishwashers? washing machines? automatic transmissions? electric refrigeration?) were once-new concepts in the last 100 years, but have become almost invisible today. They don't shout "smart," and that's OK, but they all integrate a bit of control logic that helps the user do something easier/better/cheaper/faster than was possible before. If these devices are "smart," any mechanical device is smart. None of them are (necessarily) programmed with control logic. "Smart," as far as I can tell, refers to objects that monitor how they are used and adjust their behavior in the future. I understand that the marketing for some products define smart down to "the power button is in an app on your phone."
- compumike 10y ago
  See this 1946 Oldsmobile ad, "The Smart Way to Drive," referring to the new automatic transmission: http://oldsads.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/olds_08x.jpg http://oldsads.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/olds_08x.jpg -- really hammers on the "smart" theme. That was 70 years ago. I'm simply suggesting that "smart" is a moving target based on the cutting edge technology of the day, and that many previous "smart" devices are now ubiquitous and invisible in daily life.
Shivetya 10y ago
Oh I could imagine a smart kitchen where all food is tracked by RFID tags or even video. Think about it, putting your groceries into the the cabinets and they check the RFID for item and expiration, same with your fridge. With the fridge being powered it could sport one or two cameras to watch items move in/out of it if they did not sport tracking devices. Then all that can and voice control, MOM WHERE IS MY TOASTED OATS, has the cabinet light up or signal that it has them or it replies voice that there are none. all sorts of possibilities but it comes down to imagination and rapidly decreasing costs of the necessary electronics. I don't need a connected kitchen, I need a smart one "Hey dummy, your burning your lunch" to my phone, tablet, or pc, if not in the room. Asking "how do I cook this" and an OLED display on cabinet or appliance shows me.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  > all food is tracked by RFID tags or even video How are you going to solve the problems of 'bag of spinach I got at the farmer's market' or 'homemade pickles' or similar.
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    Stickers with RFID tags and a dumb-as-rocks UI that lets you say, with a single button press, "This tag is on some unwashed spinach!" and nothing more.
sien 10y ago
Network connected isn't just an implementation detail. If it's on a network it has potential security problems and if the functions rely on the network then it needs updates. Phones commonly don't get security updates after 2-3 years. The idea that a fridge will keep getting security updates for the lifetime of the fridge, say 20 years, is not realistic. Not to mention the problem that people often don't configure devices correctly. Perhaps some here remember VCRs with the perpetual flashing unset time. The internet of things for companies and organisations that collect data and have staff to handle them and replace them regularly is a big deal. The internet of things in households is pretty dubious.
- x5n1 10y ago
  You could always rent your fridge. It could be manufactured by the people who run your grocery store. That's probably where the fridge is headed.
bobbles 10y ago
To me a smart blender is one that is available for use in my kitchen when I need it, and not when I dont need it (ie. wasting space). Amazon style drone delivery + rental of household appliances is the future imo. A great way to save space in ever smaller city housing too
- VLM 10y ago
  The smart I would LIKE would be a robust high temperature rated fanless immersion-rated VFD driving a direct connected 3 phase fanless immersion-rated motor with programmable (sane) rotation ramp up rates and torque monitoring via current sensors on each phase to deal intelligently and safely with jams and such, and tie in safety switches so people can't stick their hand in there without the VFD noticing and cutting out at the VFD level. Also if you're monitoring torque it can ramp down once the margarita is pulverized saving electricity. Probably there is a real world optimum rotation cycle that uses the least KWH to mix a margarita and a smart VFD could follow and adapt itself to that goal. So faster, quieter, safer, longer lasting, real-green as opposed to greenwashing sounds smart to me. I suspect I could pull that off for a kilobuck. That is not entirely out of line BTW for high end cooking gear. The smart I will GET is a buggy bad UX app controlled blender that only runs on android 2.2 phones and no newer phone OS AND requires the mfgr to keep the big brother server in china online or else its just an abstract sculpture brick on my counter. It'll monitor every use to sell to corporations and it'll post on my behalf on facebook primarily to embarrass me. It'll be less reliable and shorter lived than a purely mechanical blender, and it'll probably require a foul and obnoxious financialization scheme where I have to subscribe to a monthly "blender service" to use it at all. An hour with the diagonal cutters and my soldering iron will rip out the "smart" thus improving my user experience, or maybe I'll have to commit some DMCA violations. Commit some DMCA violations to mix a margarita... Its about the same level or intensity of hardware and tech in each case, its just the business model of "smart" right now is much more the latter than the former and therefore "smart" always suxs and the public is starting to figure that out. Which on a meta level sucks because if I had infinite spare time I am completely capable of making and selling the former "smart" blender, but the disaster of the "latter" smart blender will poison the marketplace such that people would run in terror away from my (former-type) smart blender.
niels_olson 10y ago
> I really don't want a ... smart fridge. Seriously? I want a smart fridge and smart cabinets. Everything RFID'd, and all the shelves are scales. Everything is tracked and when it gets low, my shopping list is auto-populated and semi-automatically purchased and delivered. Not sure about clothing... Can you detect thread-bare socks?

derefr 10y ago

A "smart" refrigerator theoretically saves you money by reducing waste; a long-marketed feature for a hypothetical smart-fridge is that it tracks when you bought stuff and also knows, for each food item, how urgent it is to consume—and thus, could make meal suggestions for the sake of "using stuff up." The thing is, that logic doesn't need to be in a fridge; it could just as well be in a grocery-delivery phone app or something. It just seems like a fridge is the place to put it because fridges hold food. So we keep trying to imagine smart fridges, instead of imagining more ambient software to achieve the same purpose—e.g. a "home guru" app for the Amazon Echo that would just tell you, the human, to go do something in your home at the right time for it to have an optimal effect.

cmdrfred 10y ago
Also if 'smart'-grid technology gets implemented it can time it's cooling cycles to when energy is cheaper. Saving money that way.
- jpitz 10y ago
  You'd need to store chilled water or something similar in order to do that....
  - ams6110 10y ago
    ... which would eventually leak out all over (and under) your floor and cause potentially thousands of dollars in damage. Ask me how I know. No water connected to my fridge, thanks.

pessimizer 10y ago

> The most prevalent domestic 'smart' devices (dishwashers? washing machines? automatic transmissions? electric refrigeration?) were once-new concepts in the last 100 years, but have become almost invisible today. They don't shout "smart," and that's OK, but they all integrate a bit of control logic that helps the user do something easier/better/cheaper/faster than was possible before. If these devices are "smart," any mechanical device is smart. None of them are (necessarily) programmed with control logic. "Smart," as far as I can tell, refers to objects that monitor how they are used and adjust their behavior in the future. I understand that the marketing for some products define smart down to "the power button is in an app on your phone."

compumike 10y ago
See this 1946 Oldsmobile ad, "The Smart Way to Drive," referring to the new automatic transmission: http://oldsads.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/olds_08x.jpg http://oldsads.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/olds_08x.jpg -- really hammers on the "smart" theme. That was 70 years ago. I'm simply suggesting that "smart" is a moving target based on the cutting edge technology of the day, and that many previous "smart" devices are now ubiquitous and invisible in daily life.

Shivetya 10y ago

Oh I could imagine a smart kitchen where all food is tracked by RFID tags or even video. Think about it, putting your groceries into the the cabinets and they check the RFID for item and expiration, same with your fridge. With the fridge being powered it could sport one or two cameras to watch items move in/out of it if they did not sport tracking devices. Then all that can and voice control, MOM WHERE IS MY TOASTED OATS, has the cabinet light up or signal that it has them or it replies voice that there are none. all sorts of possibilities but it comes down to imagination and rapidly decreasing costs of the necessary electronics. I don't need a connected kitchen, I need a smart one "Hey dummy, your burning your lunch" to my phone, tablet, or pc, if not in the room. Asking "how do I cook this" and an OLED display on cabinet or appliance shows me.

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
> all food is tracked by RFID tags or even video How are you going to solve the problems of 'bag of spinach I got at the farmer's market' or 'homemade pickles' or similar.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  Stickers with RFID tags and a dumb-as-rocks UI that lets you say, with a single button press, "This tag is on some unwashed spinach!" and nothing more.

sien 10y ago

Network connected isn't just an implementation detail. If it's on a network it has potential security problems and if the functions rely on the network then it needs updates. Phones commonly don't get security updates after 2-3 years. The idea that a fridge will keep getting security updates for the lifetime of the fridge, say 20 years, is not realistic. Not to mention the problem that people often don't configure devices correctly. Perhaps some here remember VCRs with the perpetual flashing unset time. The internet of things for companies and organisations that collect data and have staff to handle them and replace them regularly is a big deal. The internet of things in households is pretty dubious.

x5n1 10y ago
You could always rent your fridge. It could be manufactured by the people who run your grocery store. That's probably where the fridge is headed.

bobbles 10y ago

To me a smart blender is one that is available for use in my kitchen when I need it, and not when I dont need it (ie. wasting space). Amazon style drone delivery + rental of household appliances is the future imo. A great way to save space in ever smaller city housing too

VLM 10y ago
The smart I would LIKE would be a robust high temperature rated fanless immersion-rated VFD driving a direct connected 3 phase fanless immersion-rated motor with programmable (sane) rotation ramp up rates and torque monitoring via current sensors on each phase to deal intelligently and safely with jams and such, and tie in safety switches so people can't stick their hand in there without the VFD noticing and cutting out at the VFD level. Also if you're monitoring torque it can ramp down once the margarita is pulverized saving electricity. Probably there is a real world optimum rotation cycle that uses the least KWH to mix a margarita and a smart VFD could follow and adapt itself to that goal. So faster, quieter, safer, longer lasting, real-green as opposed to greenwashing sounds smart to me. I suspect I could pull that off for a kilobuck. That is not entirely out of line BTW for high end cooking gear. The smart I will GET is a buggy bad UX app controlled blender that only runs on android 2.2 phones and no newer phone OS AND requires the mfgr to keep the big brother server in china online or else its just an abstract sculpture brick on my counter. It'll monitor every use to sell to corporations and it'll post on my behalf on facebook primarily to embarrass me. It'll be less reliable and shorter lived than a purely mechanical blender, and it'll probably require a foul and obnoxious financialization scheme where I have to subscribe to a monthly "blender service" to use it at all. An hour with the diagonal cutters and my soldering iron will rip out the "smart" thus improving my user experience, or maybe I'll have to commit some DMCA violations. Commit some DMCA violations to mix a margarita... Its about the same level or intensity of hardware and tech in each case, its just the business model of "smart" right now is much more the latter than the former and therefore "smart" always suxs and the public is starting to figure that out. Which on a meta level sucks because if I had infinite spare time I am completely capable of making and selling the former "smart" blender, but the disaster of the "latter" smart blender will poison the marketplace such that people would run in terror away from my (former-type) smart blender.

niels_olson 10y ago

> I really don't want a ... smart fridge. Seriously? I want a smart fridge and smart cabinets. Everything RFID'd, and all the shelves are scales. Everything is tracked and when it gets low, my shopping list is auto-populated and semi-automatically purchased and delivered. Not sure about clothing... Can you detect thread-bare socks?