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Now that chips on the market will support this codec, will Apple and Mocrosoft support webm?

by cordite 10y ago

duskwuff 10y ago
Doesn't follow, at least in Apple's case. iOS devices use (and have always used!) PowerVR GPUs, not the Mali GPU discussed in this article.
niftich 10y ago
Edge already supports WebM and VP9 in the insider builds (on desktop). Most Intel GPUs have had hardware or hardware-assisted VP9 decode since Jan 2015. PowerVR GPUs (Imagination/Apple) have had it since 2014, but I'm not sure if that exact variant is inside the iPhone SOCs.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  iirc Apple doesn't have official support for VP9 and its suppor for h.265 is limited to FaceTime only for some reason. So like h.265 it could be that the hardware can support it but it's just walled off so developers can't use it.
  - barake 10y ago
    Lack H265 support is likely due to licensing costs, despite the advantages the codec provides. Just about everyone is staying away until the cost and terms become more reasonable. Apple is willing to eat the costs for FaceTime because of how good H265 is - It's a serious competitive advantage.
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      They removed all mention of HEVC/h.265 from their iPhone specs page when the second patent fee was announced, so it's not clear they're still using/paying for it.
    - vardump 10y ago
      > Apple is willing to eat the costs for FaceTime because of how good H265 is - It's a serious competitive advantage. Does it really matter so much? 4G speeds are now up to 450 Mbps. Nowadays it's pretty rare to see (stationary) 4G downstream below 50 Mbps and upstream below 10 Mbps. Fixed networks are even faster, broadband speeds are generally in 100 - 1000 Mbps range in most of the world. H.264 is just good enough for modern network performance [1]. I'd rather prefer less battery usage. [1]: Except in some countries that chose not to regulate telecom market, but gave telecom majors free hands to gouge without giving much in return. Sadly, most notably USA.
      - lorenzhs 10y ago
        That's far from ubiquitous. And while speeds may be high, data transfer costs are also still quite high. Most people have a monthly cap. Halving (made up number) the data consumption of FaceTime has a very positive effect on that. Also, battery usage difference should be small as video codecs are usually implemented in hardware on phones. I would expect the radio and screen to make up for the majority of power usage, not CPU/GPU.
      - gm-conspiracy 10y ago
        Will you adopt me?
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        I've tried 4G networks on every continent and multiple devices and I haven't seen 450Mbit anywhere be really commercially really available. Infact most "4G" networks out there give you less speed than what HSUPA/HSDPA 3G/3.5G networks could theoretically provide. But even if you had those speeds the low bandwidth makes h.265 attractive not because of max download/upload speed but because of datacaps, if you only have 2GB of cellular data each month and you can have a video codec that both allows you to conduct video calls in suboptimal conditions as well at 1/5th or so of the bitrate that h.264 needs for similar visual quality it's really a no brainer which one you use.
        vardump 10y ago
        > Infact most "4G" networks out there give you less speed than what HSUPA/HSDPA 3G/3.5G networks could theoretically provide. I never got much more than 10-20 Mbps out of HSDPA. Even my slow work 4G subscription can do stable 50/10 Mbps. 4G can easily sustain 150 Mbps. > if you only have 2GB of cellular data each month Did you forget a zero? Or do you mean a cheap prepaid card? That sounds pretty extreme. You can use 2 GB in a few minutes!
dbcooper 10y ago
Microsoft offers an extension to DXVA on Windows 10 for decoding VP8 and VP9: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=49188 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=491...

Now that chips on the market will support this codec, will Apple and Mocrosoft support webm?

by cordite 10y ago

Now that chips on the market will support this codec, will Apple and Mocrosoft support webm?

Doesn't follow, at least in Apple's case. iOS devices use (and have always used!) PowerVR GPUs, not the Mali GPU discussed in this article.

niftich 10y ago

Edge already supports WebM and VP9 in the insider builds (on desktop). Most Intel GPUs have had hardware or hardware-assisted VP9 decode since Jan 2015. PowerVR GPUs (Imagination/Apple) have had it since 2014, but I'm not sure if that exact variant is inside the iPhone SOCs.

dogma1138 10y ago
iirc Apple doesn't have official support for VP9 and its suppor for h.265 is limited to FaceTime only for some reason. So like h.265 it could be that the hardware can support it but it's just walled off so developers can't use it.
- barake 10y ago
  Lack H265 support is likely due to licensing costs, despite the advantages the codec provides. Just about everyone is staying away until the cost and terms become more reasonable. Apple is willing to eat the costs for FaceTime because of how good H265 is - It's a serious competitive advantage.
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    They removed all mention of HEVC/h.265 from their iPhone specs page when the second patent fee was announced, so it's not clear they're still using/paying for it.
  - vardump 10y ago
    > Apple is willing to eat the costs for FaceTime because of how good H265 is - It's a serious competitive advantage. Does it really matter so much? 4G speeds are now up to 450 Mbps. Nowadays it's pretty rare to see (stationary) 4G downstream below 50 Mbps and upstream below 10 Mbps. Fixed networks are even faster, broadband speeds are generally in 100 - 1000 Mbps range in most of the world. H.264 is just good enough for modern network performance [1]. I'd rather prefer less battery usage. [1]: Except in some countries that chose not to regulate telecom market, but gave telecom majors free hands to gouge without giving much in return. Sadly, most notably USA.
    - lorenzhs 10y ago
      That's far from ubiquitous. And while speeds may be high, data transfer costs are also still quite high. Most people have a monthly cap. Halving (made up number) the data consumption of FaceTime has a very positive effect on that. Also, battery usage difference should be small as video codecs are usually implemented in hardware on phones. I would expect the radio and screen to make up for the majority of power usage, not CPU/GPU.
    - gm-conspiracy 10y ago
      Will you adopt me?
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      I've tried 4G networks on every continent and multiple devices and I haven't seen 450Mbit anywhere be really commercially really available. Infact most "4G" networks out there give you less speed than what HSUPA/HSDPA 3G/3.5G networks could theoretically provide. But even if you had those speeds the low bandwidth makes h.265 attractive not because of max download/upload speed but because of datacaps, if you only have 2GB of cellular data each month and you can have a video codec that both allows you to conduct video calls in suboptimal conditions as well at 1/5th or so of the bitrate that h.264 needs for similar visual quality it's really a no brainer which one you use.
      - vardump 10y ago
        > Infact most "4G" networks out there give you less speed than what HSUPA/HSDPA 3G/3.5G networks could theoretically provide. I never got much more than 10-20 Mbps out of HSDPA. Even my slow work 4G subscription can do stable 50/10 Mbps. 4G can easily sustain 150 Mbps. > if you only have 2GB of cellular data each month Did you forget a zero? Or do you mean a cheap prepaid card? That sounds pretty extreme. You can use 2 GB in a few minutes!

dbcooper 10y ago

Microsoft offers an extension to DXVA on Windows 10 for decoding VP8 and VP9: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=49188 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=491...