5 ms·

Are you saying it is customary to fly people business class in the Valley, rather than coach? Especially for a team retreat?

jsprogrammer 10y ago
Are you saying you can fly coach from SF to Berlin and actually still engage in a "retreat"?
- jpna66dd 10y ago
  I am trying to learn about the business habits in the Valley. I wish someone could inform me. To answer your question, obviously I am not from the valley, i run my own business, it is quite profitable, i don't do retreats, and i fly quite a bit, always coach. So if i ever organised a retreat, i would expect everyone to fly coach. Hence my question.
  - tokensimian 10y ago
    FWIW, the US Government's regulations for civil service workers (civilians working for the federal gov't) are pretty strict, and are often used as a basis for private companies. (EG, mileage reimbursement is usually a rate set by the feds.) Their policy is business class for international flights over 8 hours. Given that, I think it would be seen as common/acceptable to mimic.
    - ma2rten 10y ago
      Interesting, ... that would basically mean that all flights from San Francisco to outside of the Americas should be business class.
    - lmeyerov 10y ago
      Keep in mind: government employees who travel international are often diplomats. Gov rates for diplomats are, overall, luxurious. (I'm not sure of the bleedover here, but would not be surprised.) Above comment about business class / direct for long trips, and at least direct/convenient economy for ~startups (not 2 guys & a laptop) sounds right.
    - falsestprophet 10y ago
      That is surprising and disappointing. I know we didn't send our guys over to Iraq and Afghanistan in business class. It's shameful that a rando in USAID or something would be afforded better accommodations for a conference in Tokyo.
- baby 10y ago
  considering coach tickets are more than half the price, I don't see why anyone would not buy them.
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    Some people are too large to comfortably sit in coach seats for fourteen hours. Torturing an employee before a retreat is not very nice.
    - aianus 10y ago
      You'd be welcome to literally burn me with cigarettes during the flight if you paid me that $5,000 difference in fares.
      - jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Isn't that a felony?
- SeoxyS 10y ago
  It's incredibly rare for startups to fly people around the world in business class. And I say this as someone who flies long-haul exclusively in Business and First—I still would never expect my employer to put me up in business. As a personal decision, it can make sense. I'll buy the fare outright when it's $3,000 or less for an international round-trip, and I make sure of credit card points and frequent flyer miles. If I worked for a big public company, I'd expect them to put me up in business for anything longer than 6h. For a young small startup, I'd expect them to put me in a reasonably convenient economy ticket (e.g. not flying out of OAK instead of SFO, and not forcing me to take long connections, or really ultra-low-cost carriers like WOW Air).
elif 10y ago
I have no experience with SF, but when talking about trans-atlantic flights, business class is less of a luxury than normal. If you are tall, overweight, etc. sitting in a small seat for 10 hours can cause all kinds of joint, spine, and circulatory issues.
- balls187 10y ago
  Interesting. I am very overweight, and I never have an issue flying coach on transatlantic flights. I've found most flights from US to Europe typically have more legroom, than domestic counterparts. Typically I will pay for the 1st class upgrade for domestic flights, but fly coach.
  - blablablame 10y ago
    I'm 5'6 and normal weight, I did a standard flight from EU->San Francisco and on the return when checking in I bought pretty much any update that was available to give me more leg room/space. I swear I will never do another 5+ hour flight that isnt at least business class. I had back pain for a month. My feet were swollen for a whole week that my shoes didn't confortably fit, etc that I will easily lose a paying gig over doing a flight like that ever again.
hammock 10y ago
I cannot speak for Valley customs. But all of the (non-Valley) companies I'm familiar with extend business class to employees for international travel as a matter of policy.
- jly 10y ago
  I must work at the wrong places (non-Valley). Maybe that used to be common, but in recent years I don't see that for regular employees at all. Maybe for some layers of management.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  I worked at 1 company that did business class IF your flight was over 10h or something, but in 2008 that got revoked. Since then not seen any business class for mere devs.
- tedmiston 10y ago
  This is a startup...
- ryuker16 10y ago
  It's been the complete opposite in my experience outside the valley.
- dboreham 10y ago
  fwiw I've done a fair bit of international flying as an engineering guy over the decades and the only time I flew biz class was when going to an interview at Microsoft 20 years ago. Good times...
largote 10y ago
For very long flights, it usually is.
philjohn 10y ago
You're forgetting Premium Economy which more providers offer now too. It's a facsimile of business class of old, so no lie flat bed, but you get lots more leg room, wider seat, priority boarding (after 1st and Business) and a better meal.

jsprogrammer 10y ago

Are you saying you can fly coach from SF to Berlin and actually still engage in a "retreat"?

jpna66dd 10y ago
I am trying to learn about the business habits in the Valley. I wish someone could inform me. To answer your question, obviously I am not from the valley, i run my own business, it is quite profitable, i don't do retreats, and i fly quite a bit, always coach. So if i ever organised a retreat, i would expect everyone to fly coach. Hence my question.
- tokensimian 10y ago
  FWIW, the US Government's regulations for civil service workers (civilians working for the federal gov't) are pretty strict, and are often used as a basis for private companies. (EG, mileage reimbursement is usually a rate set by the feds.) Their policy is business class for international flights over 8 hours. Given that, I think it would be seen as common/acceptable to mimic.
  - ma2rten 10y ago
    Interesting, ... that would basically mean that all flights from San Francisco to outside of the Americas should be business class.
  - lmeyerov 10y ago
    Keep in mind: government employees who travel international are often diplomats. Gov rates for diplomats are, overall, luxurious. (I'm not sure of the bleedover here, but would not be surprised.) Above comment about business class / direct for long trips, and at least direct/convenient economy for ~startups (not 2 guys & a laptop) sounds right.
  - falsestprophet 10y ago
    That is surprising and disappointing. I know we didn't send our guys over to Iraq and Afghanistan in business class. It's shameful that a rando in USAID or something would be afforded better accommodations for a conference in Tokyo.
baby 10y ago
considering coach tickets are more than half the price, I don't see why anyone would not buy them.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  Some people are too large to comfortably sit in coach seats for fourteen hours. Torturing an employee before a retreat is not very nice.
  - aianus 10y ago
    You'd be welcome to literally burn me with cigarettes during the flight if you paid me that $5,000 difference in fares.
    - jsprogrammer 10y ago
      Isn't that a felony?
SeoxyS 10y ago
It's incredibly rare for startups to fly people around the world in business class. And I say this as someone who flies long-haul exclusively in Business and First—I still would never expect my employer to put me up in business. As a personal decision, it can make sense. I'll buy the fare outright when it's $3,000 or less for an international round-trip, and I make sure of credit card points and frequent flyer miles. If I worked for a big public company, I'd expect them to put me up in business for anything longer than 6h. For a young small startup, I'd expect them to put me in a reasonably convenient economy ticket (e.g. not flying out of OAK instead of SFO, and not forcing me to take long connections, or really ultra-low-cost carriers like WOW Air).

elif 10y ago

I have no experience with SF, but when talking about trans-atlantic flights, business class is less of a luxury than normal. If you are tall, overweight, etc. sitting in a small seat for 10 hours can cause all kinds of joint, spine, and circulatory issues.

balls187 10y ago
Interesting. I am very overweight, and I never have an issue flying coach on transatlantic flights. I've found most flights from US to Europe typically have more legroom, than domestic counterparts. Typically I will pay for the 1st class upgrade for domestic flights, but fly coach.
- blablablame 10y ago
  I'm 5'6 and normal weight, I did a standard flight from EU->San Francisco and on the return when checking in I bought pretty much any update that was available to give me more leg room/space. I swear I will never do another 5+ hour flight that isnt at least business class. I had back pain for a month. My feet were swollen for a whole week that my shoes didn't confortably fit, etc that I will easily lose a paying gig over doing a flight like that ever again.

hammock 10y ago

I cannot speak for Valley customs. But all of the (non-Valley) companies I'm familiar with extend business class to employees for international travel as a matter of policy.

jly 10y ago
I must work at the wrong places (non-Valley). Maybe that used to be common, but in recent years I don't see that for regular employees at all. Maybe for some layers of management.
brianwawok 10y ago
I worked at 1 company that did business class IF your flight was over 10h or something, but in 2008 that got revoked. Since then not seen any business class for mere devs.
tedmiston 10y ago
This is a startup...
ryuker16 10y ago
It's been the complete opposite in my experience outside the valley.
dboreham 10y ago
fwiw I've done a fair bit of international flying as an engineering guy over the decades and the only time I flew biz class was when going to an interview at Microsoft 20 years ago. Good times...

largote 10y ago

For very long flights, it usually is.

philjohn 10y ago

You're forgetting Premium Economy which more providers offer now too. It's a facsimile of business class of old, so no lie flat bed, but you get lots more leg room, wider seat, priority boarding (after 1st and Business) and a better meal.