13 ms·

Wow, didn't expect such interest from HN. Seems everyone loves trains. :) Tangentially, what is it about trains anyway? Seems to me they hit the natural swee

by limist 17y ago

Wow, didn't expect such interest from HN. Seems everyone loves trains. :) Tangentially, what is it about trains anyway? Seems to me they hit the natural sweet-spot of "comprehensible speed" or speed at a near-human scale: not so fast and distant as to be alien like jets, but fast enough to be interesting. Oh, and stress-free compared to driving.

fnid2 17y ago
Have you traveled on trains? It's so much nicer than planes. No security check, no long waits, no cattle herding. Plus, they are more efficient. They are transportation of the future. The world is going to be going backwards in time as energy becomes more expensive. This means leaving planes and going to trains and wind powered ships. It's already happening. Plus, it is a national recognition that long term thinking is beneficial. China in this case is a visionary example for the world. I hope the U.S. wakes up soon.
- shawndrost 17y ago
  > ...as energy becomes more expensive. Is energy becoming more expensive? A quick search (ie http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1869.gif http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1869.gif) shows no such long-term trend.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - fnid2 17y ago
    Many argue, including Hubert King, that oil is running out. He noticed a bell curve of output and predicted the peak of that output would be right around today. He extrapolated data from single wells, to fields to entire nations, correctly was pretty accurate with his predictions and many petrol geologists think we are at or very near the peak and energy will continue to get more expensive as output declines relative to consumption. By my math, even at current consumption rates we have just about 30 years of oil left: oil reserves divided by daily consumption. That doesn't include the growth rate of consumption and China and India hardly use anything right now per capita compared to the west.
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  I want to qualify what I'm about to say with the fact that I love love love trains, and have spent significant (1000+) hours riding them. I think trains, due mainly to speed, have a sweet spot to fill, and a future without air travel is not in the cards. Also, as trains become more popular, they will eventually become subject to the same security hassles as air travel. So I'm not directly contradicting you. Trains will always be more spacious and allow more freedom to move about and dine in comfort than planes. I think they have a definite role to fill (any trip between 100 miles and 600 miles in length assuming decent speeds of 150mph+). I'm just saying the future is going to be a heterogeneous mix of transportation options. Of course, if someone builds a train that moves at jet speeds, all bets are off.
- limist 17y ago
  Thanks for the comment - my question/comment was about their seeming psychological appeal. Yes, they are usually more physically convenient and comfortable, but I believe there's something more to the experience than that. Just wondering aloud what that could be; I've felt more contemplative on trains than I ever recall being on a plane, or while being driven somewhere.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    Trains are more roomy and comfortable. You can walk around whenever you want. You can read easily. The noise level is much more bearable. There's less fear of it crashing. It feels faster because the earth is moving by closer.
  - _delirium 17y ago
    The smoothness is part of it for me. If planes had no takeoff/landing, no significant banks, and no turbulence, but just straight-ahead, smooth-air cruising, I could see them being decently relaxing.
    - fnid2 17y ago
      Stability! No popping ears. Wow... flying is a pretty miserable experience. If trains were the same price and I could actually use them to get between places, I would never fly. When I was in SF, I couldn't even get from SF to L.A. without having to transfer via bus.
- yosh 17y ago
  > No security check, no long waits, no cattle herding. Not all trains. With Eurostar (Paris<->London) there's a security checkpoint with an x-ray and metal detector, along with passport control.
  - illumen 17y ago
    yeah, and in china all trains have such checks - but no passport control. However, the eurostar is nicer compared to many airports. Airports are shopping centers, where they want people to stay and buy things. The longer you stay at airports the more you spend. That is an incentive to have you at airports longer. Whereas many train stations do not have that set-up (although that is changing!). The eurostar used to be easier, because the station at the london end did not have a long way to walk past lots of shops. Now, at the new station there are lots of shops to walk past before you can leave. Still quite nice though in comparison to flying out of gatwick on easy jet ;) I love trains. Been on them from 30 hour trips across Australia, to the bullet trains in Japan, ones across Germany, France, the Netherlands, China and ones across the UK. Always wanted to do some long trips across china, russia and india... guess I better hurry up before those trains are replaced! It will be great when the fast networks of europe are joined to the fast networks of asia.
  - ig1 17y ago
    I'd much rather take Eurostar than a plane from Paris <-> London, sure there's security checkpoint but the whole process is far more painless than flying.
erikstarck 17y ago
Trains in vacuum tunnels would be able to go as fast as a jet plane. You'd lose the sightseeing though, unless the tunnels were built of glass. :)
erikstarck 17y ago
I think this is more about the idea of a grand project filled with dreams of a better future than trains.

by limist 17y ago

fnid2 17y ago

Have you traveled on trains? It's so much nicer than planes. No security check, no long waits, no cattle herding. Plus, they are more efficient. They are transportation of the future. The world is going to be going backwards in time as energy becomes more expensive. This means leaving planes and going to trains and wind powered ships. It's already happening. Plus, it is a national recognition that long term thinking is beneficial. China in this case is a visionary example for the world. I hope the U.S. wakes up soon.

shawndrost 17y ago
> ...as energy becomes more expensive. Is energy becoming more expensive? A quick search (ie http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1869.gif http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1869.gif) shows no such long-term trend.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- fnid2 17y ago
  Many argue, including Hubert King, that oil is running out. He noticed a bell curve of output and predicted the peak of that output would be right around today. He extrapolated data from single wells, to fields to entire nations, correctly was pretty accurate with his predictions and many petrol geologists think we are at or very near the peak and energy will continue to get more expensive as output declines relative to consumption. By my math, even at current consumption rates we have just about 30 years of oil left: oil reserves divided by daily consumption. That doesn't include the growth rate of consumption and China and India hardly use anything right now per capita compared to the west.
Xichekolas 17y ago
I want to qualify what I'm about to say with the fact that I love love love trains, and have spent significant (1000+) hours riding them. I think trains, due mainly to speed, have a sweet spot to fill, and a future without air travel is not in the cards. Also, as trains become more popular, they will eventually become subject to the same security hassles as air travel. So I'm not directly contradicting you. Trains will always be more spacious and allow more freedom to move about and dine in comfort than planes. I think they have a definite role to fill (any trip between 100 miles and 600 miles in length assuming decent speeds of 150mph+). I'm just saying the future is going to be a heterogeneous mix of transportation options. Of course, if someone builds a train that moves at jet speeds, all bets are off.
limist 17y ago
Thanks for the comment - my question/comment was about their seeming psychological appeal. Yes, they are usually more physically convenient and comfortable, but I believe there's something more to the experience than that. Just wondering aloud what that could be; I've felt more contemplative on trains than I ever recall being on a plane, or while being driven somewhere.
- fnid2 17y ago
  Trains are more roomy and comfortable. You can walk around whenever you want. You can read easily. The noise level is much more bearable. There's less fear of it crashing. It feels faster because the earth is moving by closer.
- _delirium 17y ago
  The smoothness is part of it for me. If planes had no takeoff/landing, no significant banks, and no turbulence, but just straight-ahead, smooth-air cruising, I could see them being decently relaxing.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    Stability! No popping ears. Wow... flying is a pretty miserable experience. If trains were the same price and I could actually use them to get between places, I would never fly. When I was in SF, I couldn't even get from SF to L.A. without having to transfer via bus.
yosh 17y ago
> No security check, no long waits, no cattle herding. Not all trains. With Eurostar (Paris<->London) there's a security checkpoint with an x-ray and metal detector, along with passport control.
- illumen 17y ago
  yeah, and in china all trains have such checks - but no passport control. However, the eurostar is nicer compared to many airports. Airports are shopping centers, where they want people to stay and buy things. The longer you stay at airports the more you spend. That is an incentive to have you at airports longer. Whereas many train stations do not have that set-up (although that is changing!). The eurostar used to be easier, because the station at the london end did not have a long way to walk past lots of shops. Now, at the new station there are lots of shops to walk past before you can leave. Still quite nice though in comparison to flying out of gatwick on easy jet ;) I love trains. Been on them from 30 hour trips across Australia, to the bullet trains in Japan, ones across Germany, France, the Netherlands, China and ones across the UK. Always wanted to do some long trips across china, russia and india... guess I better hurry up before those trains are replaced! It will be great when the fast networks of europe are joined to the fast networks of asia.
- ig1 17y ago
  I'd much rather take Eurostar than a plane from Paris <-> London, sure there's security checkpoint but the whole process is far more painless than flying.

erikstarck 17y ago

Trains in vacuum tunnels would be able to go as fast as a jet plane. You'd lose the sightseeing though, unless the tunnels were built of glass. :)

erikstarck 17y ago

I think this is more about the idea of a grand project filled with dreams of a better future than trains.