3 ms·

I wouldn't imagine new zoning that prevents new buildings in the Somerville model of triple deckers (with flat roofs) and Philadelphia 3 story houses (http://bo

by hga 10y ago

I wouldn't imagine new zoning that prevents new buildings in the Somerville model of triple deckers (with flat roofs) and Philadelphia 3 story houses (http://boston.curbed.com/2013/11/25/10170482/defining-philadelphia-style-in-greater-boston http://boston.curbed.com/2013/11/25/10170482/defining-philad...) with very little space between them would have much effect, those sorts of density details are grandfathered, and whatever the city council did is most grandstanding, seeing as how there's no space to build new buildings anyway (I was told houses were torn down to make a few parks in the city). As for code ... heh, I spend a lot of time in Somerville, witnessed a remodeling job in the house I was in back in the late '80s, and am now remodeling a house built in 1910 in my home town (which if memory serves is generally a bit older than most Boston area rental houses). The modern codes are a very different thing and mostly focused on the property itself, although to the extent they decrease the probability of fire they're better for your neighbors (although Somerville's fire department is top notch, which I've witnessed first hand, otherwise not much of it would still be standing, it's one of the few cities in the US that has the fuel density to support a firestorm).

mjevans 10y ago
Why not do smart things such as requiring fire resistant exterior materials? This seems like yet another issue of baking the solution in to the specification instead of just asking for what you actually need/want.
- hga 10y ago
  What sort of "fire resistant" exterior materials could work with a relatively inexpensive 3 story house that's 6 feet apart from another (yeah, the separation can be that small; and in my somewhat crowded 1-2 story house neighborhood far away from Somerville, with 0.14 acre lots, my house is ... 3 feet or less from the property line, then there's a driveway, then not many feet to a 2 story house; our garages have 1 foot of separation)? Even if you were to build a Somerville today, you'd be hard pressed to achieve such a thing, instead, more separation is required (which does comport with your specification point). (Although that's not part of the code. Which does say if you've got townhouses, or two family houses (for this level of the code I've purchased/you can find online: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_3_sec002.htm?bu2=undefined http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_201...) they've got to have a firewall between them that's rated for 1 hour.)
  - hx87 10y ago
    A triple decker that has its stud bays dense packed with cellulose, 3 inches of continuous exterior rock wool insulation, and fiber cement siding is pretty damn fire resistant, even with <6 foot separation. Getting rid of exterior-facing wood and empty stud bays, which are fantastic heat pipes and chimneys, the flammability goes way down.
    - hga 10y ago
      Especially since stud bays in those days were often continuous, they used available back then very long pieces of wood to frame the entire building, instead of stacking floors on top of each other: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(construction)#Balloon_framing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(construction)#Balloon... Yeah, I can see that, most likely long enough to give the fire department plenty of time to save the adjacent buildings, as I witnessed once (but didn't know their construction details). I worry about flat roofs, though, how fire resistant do they tend to be? Original formula asphalt shingle with an organic base aren't super fire resistant from what I've just read and basic principles (when I re-roof, which will require taking off 3 layers (!) plus the original wood shingles, I'll be sure to get the more fire resistant fiberglass base ones).
      - hx87 10y ago
        If you're taking shingles, chances are you don't have a true flat roof (or just a terribly built one), since those are supposed to continuous roofing in order to withstand water puddles. Back in the day the only material available was asphalt tar, which obviously isn't very fireproof. Modern alternatives such as EPDM and TPO though are plenty fireproof, especially if placed on top of polyisocyanurate insulation (which doesn't burn, only char) instead of directly on the wood deck.
        hga 10y ago
        Sorry for my lack of clarity, I was talking about both types of roofs, since the classic Somerville triple decker has a flat roof, and the classic Philadelphia a pitched roof with shingles. I was wondering about the former since I've never seen one as such, aside from some one story commercial ones when I lived in a higher adjacent apartment. And thanks for the comments, you've saved me some research when it comes time to replace my roof.

by hga 10y ago

mjevans 10y ago

Why not do smart things such as requiring fire resistant exterior materials? This seems like yet another issue of baking the solution in to the specification instead of just asking for what you actually need/want.

hga 10y ago
What sort of "fire resistant" exterior materials could work with a relatively inexpensive 3 story house that's 6 feet apart from another (yeah, the separation can be that small; and in my somewhat crowded 1-2 story house neighborhood far away from Somerville, with 0.14 acre lots, my house is ... 3 feet or less from the property line, then there's a driveway, then not many feet to a 2 story house; our garages have 1 foot of separation)? Even if you were to build a Somerville today, you'd be hard pressed to achieve such a thing, instead, more separation is required (which does comport with your specification point). (Although that's not part of the code. Which does say if you've got townhouses, or two family houses (for this level of the code I've purchased/you can find online: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_3_sec002.htm?bu2=undefined http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_201...) they've got to have a firewall between them that's rated for 1 hour.)
- hx87 10y ago
  A triple decker that has its stud bays dense packed with cellulose, 3 inches of continuous exterior rock wool insulation, and fiber cement siding is pretty damn fire resistant, even with <6 foot separation. Getting rid of exterior-facing wood and empty stud bays, which are fantastic heat pipes and chimneys, the flammability goes way down.
  - hga 10y ago
    Especially since stud bays in those days were often continuous, they used available back then very long pieces of wood to frame the entire building, instead of stacking floors on top of each other: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(construction)#Balloon_framing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(construction)#Balloon... Yeah, I can see that, most likely long enough to give the fire department plenty of time to save the adjacent buildings, as I witnessed once (but didn't know their construction details). I worry about flat roofs, though, how fire resistant do they tend to be? Original formula asphalt shingle with an organic base aren't super fire resistant from what I've just read and basic principles (when I re-roof, which will require taking off 3 layers (!) plus the original wood shingles, I'll be sure to get the more fire resistant fiberglass base ones).
    - hx87 10y ago
      If you're taking shingles, chances are you don't have a true flat roof (or just a terribly built one), since those are supposed to continuous roofing in order to withstand water puddles. Back in the day the only material available was asphalt tar, which obviously isn't very fireproof. Modern alternatives such as EPDM and TPO though are plenty fireproof, especially if placed on top of polyisocyanurate insulation (which doesn't burn, only char) instead of directly on the wood deck.
      - hga 10y ago
        Sorry for my lack of clarity, I was talking about both types of roofs, since the classic Somerville triple decker has a flat roof, and the classic Philadelphia a pitched roof with shingles. I was wondering about the former since I've never seen one as such, aside from some one story commercial ones when I lived in a higher adjacent apartment. And thanks for the comments, you've saved me some research when it comes time to replace my roof.