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Stop right there. You made a claim that "the plagiarism stuff is now not even getting mentioned anymore." I demonstrated that it was mentioned, in the linked-t

by dalke 10y ago

Stop right there. You made a claim that "the plagiarism stuff is now not even getting mentioned anymore." I demonstrated that it was mentioned, in the linked-to essay even. This suggests that you didn't read the essay, at least not fully or in detail. Definitely not with the focus that you brought when criticizing a minor supporting document, nor with the high standards you want in response. That demonstration was all I cared to do. You can move the goalposts, and demand "documentation for the super broad claims", but I'm not going there. Nor is this essay about that topic you want to discuss. You can derail the conversation to something completely different than what Violet Blue described in the essay, but not only don't I care to follow you, but I have to wonder why you aren't discussing the points that are in the actual essay and want instead to switch topics away from the increasingly well attested cases of harassment allegedly done by Applebaum. You write: "And I simply don't see how any of that would have been necessary to stand up against abuse and Appelbaum" I see. So because you don't understand something doesn't mean it can't or doesn't happen. Is this based on your experience in reading through EEOC and court cases on how sexual harassment takes place in the workplace? Or in Title IX cases of how sexual harassment takes place in academic environments? Or in research reports in how sexual harassment occurs in other groups and organizations? Or are you winging it based on your personal beliefs? Because that's what it seems like to me. I like and am impressed by Snowden's talks.

PavlovsCat 10y ago
> That demonstration was all I cared to do. You can move the goalposts, and demand "documentation for the super broad claims", but I'm not going there. That's fine, don't worry. It's not like anyone else is, either. > Nor is this essay about that topic you want to discuss. Yeah, I noticed that. Yet it serves to substantiate anything bad about Appelbaum in the minds of people, as demonstrated by nobody giving a genuine fuck about the plagiarism claims. > I see. So because you don't understand something doesn't mean it can't or doesn't happen. Is this based on your experience in reading through EEOC and court cases on how sexual harassment takes place in the workplace? Or in Title IX cases of how sexual harassment takes place in academic environments? Huh. Do any of these involving attack websites calling someone "rapist, plagiarist, sociopath", or a TimeToDieJake twitter account? If you're claiming any of these things would make a case for how this, and exactly this, could every be a good idea and not abusive in itself, simply cite the relevant bits, or make your own argument. > Or are you winging it based on your personal beliefs? Because that's what it seems like to me. Winging what, exactly? That someone fingering someone in their sleep or having sex with them in front of others agains their will doesn't constitute proof for plagiarism, or what? You're "winging" addressing that head on first by declaring it out of scope, then also simply substracting it from the scope of what I criticized, which is the website and the whole package, then bluffing about documents in which you'll hardly find anything to support said package, and then fantasizing about "personal beliefs" of mine without even having the courtesy to name them. More of that creepy bullshit any HN discussion I posted in was riddled with. This isn't a mob, we're just mobbing. So, what personal belief of mine would that be? That you shouldn't have double standards? That you shouldn't lie? That the first one to call anyone a bad person doesn't get to do whatever to them, while being completely beyond criticism? Anything else you have issue with and would move from the real of minimum requirements for being a fully fledged adult to "opinions" or "beliefs"?
- dalke 10y ago
  Why should I care, when I didn't (until reading this essay and your comments) even know that plagiarism was an issue? If I think you are hyping up a minor complaint, and ignoring the major one, why should I care to investigate the minor complaint further? In the HN context, there are no postings on the topic of Applebaum and plagiarism, and pretty much you are the only one to bring up the subject in the comments -- which you do an awful lot for something that effectively no one here seems to care about. Since Violet Blue's essay was all about issues of boundaries related to sexual harassment, yes, ignoring the essay and switching to another topic is indeed "out of scope" on a comment page about that essay. As for "personal belief", that is in the context of the sentence "And I simply don't see how..". You said right there it was a personal belief, so you shouldn't be surprised. My response was to question why anyone should put any weight on your opinion. How about this - I believe you. There was no plagiarism. I will ignore all accusations in that regard, and only focus on the substantial number of complaints about sexual harassment and potential rape.

by dalke 10y ago

PavlovsCat 10y ago

> That demonstration was all I cared to do. You can move the goalposts, and demand "documentation for the super broad claims", but I'm not going there. That's fine, don't worry. It's not like anyone else is, either. > Nor is this essay about that topic you want to discuss. Yeah, I noticed that. Yet it serves to substantiate anything bad about Appelbaum in the minds of people, as demonstrated by nobody giving a genuine fuck about the plagiarism claims. > I see. So because you don't understand something doesn't mean it can't or doesn't happen. Is this based on your experience in reading through EEOC and court cases on how sexual harassment takes place in the workplace? Or in Title IX cases of how sexual harassment takes place in academic environments? Huh. Do any of these involving attack websites calling someone "rapist, plagiarist, sociopath", or a TimeToDieJake twitter account? If you're claiming any of these things would make a case for how this, and exactly this, could every be a good idea and not abusive in itself, simply cite the relevant bits, or make your own argument. > Or are you winging it based on your personal beliefs? Because that's what it seems like to me. Winging what, exactly? That someone fingering someone in their sleep or having sex with them in front of others agains their will doesn't constitute proof for plagiarism, or what? You're "winging" addressing that head on first by declaring it out of scope, then also simply substracting it from the scope of what I criticized, which is the website and the whole package, then bluffing about documents in which you'll hardly find anything to support said package, and then fantasizing about "personal beliefs" of mine without even having the courtesy to name them. More of that creepy bullshit any HN discussion I posted in was riddled with. This isn't a mob, we're just mobbing. So, what personal belief of mine would that be? That you shouldn't have double standards? That you shouldn't lie? That the first one to call anyone a bad person doesn't get to do whatever to them, while being completely beyond criticism? Anything else you have issue with and would move from the real of minimum requirements for being a fully fledged adult to "opinions" or "beliefs"?

dalke 10y ago
Why should I care, when I didn't (until reading this essay and your comments) even know that plagiarism was an issue? If I think you are hyping up a minor complaint, and ignoring the major one, why should I care to investigate the minor complaint further? In the HN context, there are no postings on the topic of Applebaum and plagiarism, and pretty much you are the only one to bring up the subject in the comments -- which you do an awful lot for something that effectively no one here seems to care about. Since Violet Blue's essay was all about issues of boundaries related to sexual harassment, yes, ignoring the essay and switching to another topic is indeed "out of scope" on a comment page about that essay. As for "personal belief", that is in the context of the sentence "And I simply don't see how..". You said right there it was a personal belief, so you shouldn't be surprised. My response was to question why anyone should put any weight on your opinion. How about this - I believe you. There was no plagiarism. I will ignore all accusations in that regard, and only focus on the substantial number of complaints about sexual harassment and potential rape.