> More often it's the programmer who sucks, not the language. In the context, it's also a common occurrence that I can tell when developers came from the php (

> More often it's the programmer who sucks, not the language. In the context, it's also a common occurrence that I can tell when developers came from the php (non framework) world. When I see them move to Rails (or in javascript), I often see an obvious lack of understanding / adaptation of MVC, Single Responsibility, asynchronicity, testing, and variable scoping - I've seen Senior PHP Developers come out with less of these concepts than codeschool graduates. That's not to say that PHP has this, or that every Rails/JS developer writes tests and understands these things (it still confounds me how companies choose rails and don't implement any tests, despite testing being a core idea)..