4 ms·

please don't post like this

by throwaway2048 10y ago

logicallee 10y ago
In case it wasn't clear, the fact that ad networks are separate is a historical relic. Technically, there is next to no impediment to the servers that serve content serving advertising content at the same time. So Sylos's point "ad-blockers are among the best antivirus-software, speed up page-load times, reduce data usage, improve privacy and require roundabout 0 effort on the user's part. And except for ignorance of their existence or extreme benevolence, there's not a whole lot of reasons for users to not install ad-blockers" actually is only a historical fluke, present in the short term only. Web sites themselves are technically able to do all of the things that Sylos mentions, without involving any off-server advertising. But web sites today have advertising that is clearly displayed. By aggressively blocking them, while saying that web sites' broken business model isn't the users' fault, you are encouraging two things: 1) Encouraging the ecosystem to make web sites serve advertising utilizing their own stack 2) Encouraging web sites to collect deep analytics from their visitors and share them directly. This is much worse than colecting advertising view information. 3) Paid shilling. This exists today and is called "native advertising." It is often indistinguishable from genuine content. As in, I don't know if I am consuming genuine content, or fake content. But the latter answers people's misguided calls for web sites to come up with an alternative model. It is very simple: today, web sites that are in the business of creating content and monetizing it using advertising networks are NOT in the business of personally collecting and selling deep analytics on their customers. They are also NOT in the business of creating shill content. This can change in the future. I wouldn't like it to.
- effingwewt 10y ago
  You dig your hole deeper with every reply. Your fearmongering won't work here. Yes, they track and sell our data. Yes, many of them are ripoffs and "shill" sites. Your stating they aren't doesn't change facts at all "It is very simple: today, web sites that are in the business of creating content and monetizing it using advertising networks are NOT in the business of personally collecting and selling deep analytics on their customers. They are also NOT in the business of creating shill content." - wrong. They get their money from the adv networks who do EXACTLY THAT, which in turn pays the site owner. They are quite literally doing exactly what you claim they don't. Here is the core of the argument. You aren't listening to the public. You know, the people you want to visit your site. You don't create content for the joy. You do it for the MONEY. Therefore it would behoove you to listen to your customers, ie US, and give us an experience we will want to pay for. Disregarding us will cause us to disregard YOU. We lose nothing. You lose potential customers. Quit trying to bail out a sinking ship with a bucket, and build a raft that could one day become its own, better ship.
  - logicallee 10y ago
    I have no idea why you think I work in the ad or newspaper industry. (To be clear: I don't and never have.) But anyway I look forward to reading your research here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11916756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11916756 - I'd just like you to collect some facts and conduct some interviews, it shouldn't take you more than half a week tops, and I'm sure you're more than happy to do it for free. I encourage you to also throw up a paypal link in case someone feels like paying (I mean, I personally won't, but still). I realize I might be proposing a bit of a broken business model for you, but I'd still like you to do it. Please just take a few days and do this work - I'd like to read the results! Thanks.

please don't post like this

In case it wasn't clear, the fact that ad networks are separate is a historical relic. Technically, there is next to no impediment to the servers that serve content serving advertising content at the same time. So Sylos's point "ad-blockers are among the best antivirus-software, speed up page-load times, reduce data usage, improve privacy and require roundabout 0 effort on the user's part. And except for ignorance of their existence or extreme benevolence, there's not a whole lot of reasons for users to not install ad-blockers" actually is only a historical fluke, present in the short term only. Web sites themselves are technically able to do all of the things that Sylos mentions, without involving any off-server advertising. But web sites today have advertising that is clearly displayed. By aggressively blocking them, while saying that web sites' broken business model isn't the users' fault, you are encouraging two things: 1) Encouraging the ecosystem to make web sites serve advertising utilizing their own stack 2) Encouraging web sites to collect deep analytics from their visitors and share them directly. This is much worse than colecting advertising view information. 3) Paid shilling. This exists today and is called "native advertising." It is often indistinguishable from genuine content. As in, I don't know if I am consuming genuine content, or fake content. But the latter answers people's misguided calls for web sites to come up with an alternative model. It is very simple: today, web sites that are in the business of creating content and monetizing it using advertising networks are NOT in the business of personally collecting and selling deep analytics on their customers. They are also NOT in the business of creating shill content. This can change in the future. I wouldn't like it to.

effingwewt 10y ago
You dig your hole deeper with every reply. Your fearmongering won't work here. Yes, they track and sell our data. Yes, many of them are ripoffs and "shill" sites. Your stating they aren't doesn't change facts at all "It is very simple: today, web sites that are in the business of creating content and monetizing it using advertising networks are NOT in the business of personally collecting and selling deep analytics on their customers. They are also NOT in the business of creating shill content." - wrong. They get their money from the adv networks who do EXACTLY THAT, which in turn pays the site owner. They are quite literally doing exactly what you claim they don't. Here is the core of the argument. You aren't listening to the public. You know, the people you want to visit your site. You don't create content for the joy. You do it for the MONEY. Therefore it would behoove you to listen to your customers, ie US, and give us an experience we will want to pay for. Disregarding us will cause us to disregard YOU. We lose nothing. You lose potential customers. Quit trying to bail out a sinking ship with a bucket, and build a raft that could one day become its own, better ship.
- logicallee 10y ago
  I have no idea why you think I work in the ad or newspaper industry. (To be clear: I don't and never have.) But anyway I look forward to reading your research here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11916756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11916756 - I'd just like you to collect some facts and conduct some interviews, it shouldn't take you more than half a week tops, and I'm sure you're more than happy to do it for free. I encourage you to also throw up a paypal link in case someone feels like paying (I mean, I personally won't, but still). I realize I might be proposing a bit of a broken business model for you, but I'd still like you to do it. Please just take a few days and do this work - I'd like to read the results! Thanks.