4 ms·

I suppose I can't help but admire the chutzpah of cloaking a tax deductible scheme to drive down your labor costs as a noble quest to "advance human potential".

I suppose I can't help but admire the chutzpah of cloaking a tax deductible scheme to drive down your labor costs as a noble quest to "advance human potential". Now where did I put my black and red flags...

lazaroclapp 10y ago
Doesn't it do both of those, plus also potentially open Facebook to being out-competed by a Nigerian or Kenyan software company? Even if his particular brand of education is in the particular areas in which his company employs people (note that it is also his own personal area of education and expertise), I don't think that should be enough to dismiss funding education as a valid tax deductible charity. Now, if in the next months it emerges that this coding schools teach only FB specific technologies (e.g. something like how to build a Messenger bot, I don't even mean PHP/Hack or React) or that admission is contingent in signing a contract to work for FB afterwards, I would feel very differently. To put an extreme example, do you consider the companies listed here: http://www.blackgirlscode.com/partners.html http://www.blackgirlscode.com/partners.html to also be participating in a tax deductible anti-labor scheme? If not, where is the line? Sure, maybe at some point Zuckerberg will realize, like Gates did before him, that the world still needs more anti-malaria drugs and nets, before it needs computers and programming courses. Nonetheless, education initiatives (even highly-targeted professional-skill education initiatives) are charities and do produce a public benefit. Whether or not that benefit exceeds the benefit produced by the taxes that would otherwise have been collected leads to a lengthy policy discussion about when and how to tax charitable donations, which might indeed be an option.
- blackbagboys 10y ago
  Andela's business model is to provide low-cost contract labor to large tech firms. This is of course delightful for those African students who benefit from the program and from a business perspective a wise investment by the Chan Zuckerbeg slush fund. I only wish that they would dispense with the nauseatingly self-congratulatory marketing copy.
  - lazaroclapp 10y ago
    Interesting. I was unaware of this, I thought this was an entirely non-profit code school type program. Is training contingent on them working for Andela afterwards? Because if so, I actually fail to see how this can be considered a nonprofit investment (in which case, I agree, it is a good business deal for everyone involved and maybe even a net-positive-do-good business deal, but one that should probably be taxed... ) Edit: I just realized this indeed an investment from a for-profit company to another, which will actually pay taxes (which is good), but seems to be surprisingly describing itself as a philanthropic initiative. So I actually see your point about this being a strange PR spin on it...
  - nl 10y ago
    There are plenty of existing software outsourcing companies. For your argument to make sense you'll need to explain why FB doesn't use them already if cost control is his motivation here.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
cpach 10y ago
Huh? Would you rather see less educational opportunities for African citizens?
- igk 10y ago
  I'd rather see some which are honest about wanting to exploit the cost of living diffential instead of acting like charity, or some which are actually nonprofit charities, not startups like Angela and tax optimisation schemes like zuckerbergs fund
adwf 10y ago
Whether you believe he is doing a good thing because it's a good thing, or just because he wants to be seen doing a good thing, it doesn't change the fact that the good thing is being done. Tax deductibility does indeed incentivise charitable giving, possibly for selfish reasons. But the person on the recieving end of education/healthcare/whatever, doesn't really care do they? The effect is what's important, not the motivation.
- blackbagboys 10y ago
  I don't believe that he is making this investment for either of those reasons. I believe he is making it because developing additional pools of low-cost contract labor is in the long term excellent for his business. Additionally, Andela will capture some of the delta between the cost of African and the cost of Indian or American developers, some of which will in turn be returned to the Initiative to finance future forays into making the world safe for oligopoly. I am sure that some localized Good Things will occur as a byproduct of this arbitrage, but let's not pretend for a second that "advancing human potential" and "promoting equality" are actually the metrics by which the success of this enterprise is being judged.
  - rdlecler1 10y ago
    You could make the argument that any of his investments will be in his long term self interest. Even investing in an anti-Facebook could be seen as a self interested move "Oh, this is to show that he doesn't support monopoly"
  - rdlecler1 10y ago
    You could make the argument that any of his investments will be in his long term self interest. Even investing in an anti-Facebook could be seen as a self interested move "Oh, this is to show that he doesn't support monopoly"
  - bko 10y ago
    > low-cost contract labor Phrases like that ring to me to describe a two class of people: a "low cost" tier, and a "normal cost" tier. To me this has obvious racist overtones as "low-cost" is often followed by [nationality]. If someone is willing to work harder, she should get the job, but somehow if that same person is willing to work as hard for less money, she is unworthy? Sure the company benefits from a spread between what a person makes and what they contribute, but they do so already. Eventually if that spread becomes too large, other companies will exploit this arbitrage and start new businesses and bid up the employees compensation. You are free to do so as well assuming you live in a free capitalist society.

lazaroclapp 10y ago

Doesn't it do both of those, plus also potentially open Facebook to being out-competed by a Nigerian or Kenyan software company? Even if his particular brand of education is in the particular areas in which his company employs people (note that it is also his own personal area of education and expertise), I don't think that should be enough to dismiss funding education as a valid tax deductible charity. Now, if in the next months it emerges that this coding schools teach only FB specific technologies (e.g. something like how to build a Messenger bot, I don't even mean PHP/Hack or React) or that admission is contingent in signing a contract to work for FB afterwards, I would feel very differently. To put an extreme example, do you consider the companies listed here: http://www.blackgirlscode.com/partners.html http://www.blackgirlscode.com/partners.html to also be participating in a tax deductible anti-labor scheme? If not, where is the line? Sure, maybe at some point Zuckerberg will realize, like Gates did before him, that the world still needs more anti-malaria drugs and nets, before it needs computers and programming courses. Nonetheless, education initiatives (even highly-targeted professional-skill education initiatives) are charities and do produce a public benefit. Whether or not that benefit exceeds the benefit produced by the taxes that would otherwise have been collected leads to a lengthy policy discussion about when and how to tax charitable donations, which might indeed be an option.

blackbagboys 10y ago
Andela's business model is to provide low-cost contract labor to large tech firms. This is of course delightful for those African students who benefit from the program and from a business perspective a wise investment by the Chan Zuckerbeg slush fund. I only wish that they would dispense with the nauseatingly self-congratulatory marketing copy.
- lazaroclapp 10y ago
  Interesting. I was unaware of this, I thought this was an entirely non-profit code school type program. Is training contingent on them working for Andela afterwards? Because if so, I actually fail to see how this can be considered a nonprofit investment (in which case, I agree, it is a good business deal for everyone involved and maybe even a net-positive-do-good business deal, but one that should probably be taxed... ) Edit: I just realized this indeed an investment from a for-profit company to another, which will actually pay taxes (which is good), but seems to be surprisingly describing itself as a philanthropic initiative. So I actually see your point about this being a strange PR spin on it...
- nl 10y ago
  There are plenty of existing software outsourcing companies. For your argument to make sense you'll need to explain why FB doesn't use them already if cost control is his motivation here.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

cpach 10y ago

Huh? Would you rather see less educational opportunities for African citizens?

igk 10y ago
I'd rather see some which are honest about wanting to exploit the cost of living diffential instead of acting like charity, or some which are actually nonprofit charities, not startups like Angela and tax optimisation schemes like zuckerbergs fund

adwf 10y ago

Whether you believe he is doing a good thing because it's a good thing, or just because he wants to be seen doing a good thing, it doesn't change the fact that the good thing is being done. Tax deductibility does indeed incentivise charitable giving, possibly for selfish reasons. But the person on the recieving end of education/healthcare/whatever, doesn't really care do they? The effect is what's important, not the motivation.

blackbagboys 10y ago
I don't believe that he is making this investment for either of those reasons. I believe he is making it because developing additional pools of low-cost contract labor is in the long term excellent for his business. Additionally, Andela will capture some of the delta between the cost of African and the cost of Indian or American developers, some of which will in turn be returned to the Initiative to finance future forays into making the world safe for oligopoly. I am sure that some localized Good Things will occur as a byproduct of this arbitrage, but let's not pretend for a second that "advancing human potential" and "promoting equality" are actually the metrics by which the success of this enterprise is being judged.
- rdlecler1 10y ago
  You could make the argument that any of his investments will be in his long term self interest. Even investing in an anti-Facebook could be seen as a self interested move "Oh, this is to show that he doesn't support monopoly"
- rdlecler1 10y ago
  You could make the argument that any of his investments will be in his long term self interest. Even investing in an anti-Facebook could be seen as a self interested move "Oh, this is to show that he doesn't support monopoly"
- bko 10y ago
  > low-cost contract labor Phrases like that ring to me to describe a two class of people: a "low cost" tier, and a "normal cost" tier. To me this has obvious racist overtones as "low-cost" is often followed by [nationality]. If someone is willing to work harder, she should get the job, but somehow if that same person is willing to work as hard for less money, she is unworthy? Sure the company benefits from a spread between what a person makes and what they contribute, but they do so already. Eventually if that spread becomes too large, other companies will exploit this arbitrage and start new businesses and bid up the employees compensation. You are free to do so as well assuming you live in a free capitalist society.