4 ms·

Just a nit, but extremely unlikely they would stop in 2 US ports due to Jones act: "requires that all goods transported by water between U.S. ports be carried

by bahmboo 10y ago

Just a nit, but extremely unlikely they would stop in 2 US ports due to Jones act: "requires that all goods transported by water between U.S. ports be carried on U.S.-flag ships, constructed in the United States, owned by U.S. citizens, and crewed by U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents." Not a lot of those so US port to port is run a bit different. Basically Hawaii and Alaska.

niftich 10y ago
But they do, and some specifically offer US flag vessels on certain routes. However, like you said, the Jones Act only applies to US-to-US shipments, whereas most cargo is coming and going from overseas -- so it's typically a non-issue. Here's some actual schedules showing real routes calling at multiple US ports: [1] http://www.cosco-usa.com/fpdb/Services/schedules.aspx http://www.cosco-usa.com/fpdb/Services/schedules.aspx [2] PDF: http://www.hamburgsud-line.com/hsdg/media/hamburgsd/documents_1/regionalinformation/northamerica/usa/news/2014_2/FirstSpirit_1418156439859Hamburg_Suds_new_Asia-US_service.pdf http://www.hamburgsud-line.com/hsdg/media/hamburgsd/document... [3] PDF: https://www.msc.com/getattachment/dfebb208-935e-4060-b0c7-a514efd1cfdd https://www.msc.com/getattachment/dfebb208-935e-4060-b0c7-a5...
- glup 10y ago
  so it's typically a non-issue— unless you live in Puerto Rico. http://www.globaltrademag.com/global-trade-daily/news/legislation-would-exempt-puerto-rico-from-the-jones-act http://www.globaltrademag.com/global-trade-daily/news/legisl...
- thomasthomas 10y ago
  used to work for a container shipper, there is absolutely zero intra-US transportation via container vessels. The multiple US port calls in a string such as NY - NFK - SAV are discharge - discharge - load or something of the variant. its not picking up containers at NY and discharging same containers in SAV. besides, I can't think of any use-cases where container shipping within US would be sensible. US company supply chains aren't designed in a way where procurement activities are dispersed and could benefit from intra-US container shipping. unless someone can think of a company? another note: IIRC theres a lot of traffic that discharges at LA and rails to HOU. even with the expanded canal, this is the most cost efficient way to get cargo from asia to houston. trans-pacific vessels are > 10k TEU so if a supplier wanted to go through panama canal, you'd have to use smaller trans-pacific vessel which would raise shippers unit cost thus raising the suppliers cost. if you're a company that relies heavily on asian imports, your facilities are typically located on the west coast to avoid extra transportation cost anyway. i don't think this news is that impactful
ubernostrum 10y ago
The rules can be satisfied so long as you're careful. Airlines do this routinely; Qantas, for example, flies New York (JFK) to Sydney, with a stop in Los Angeles. But you can only buy the ticket New York-Sydney or LA-Sydney, not New York-LA, and this is why. So long as anything or anyone you deliver originated at a port outside the US, or you only ever pick up at ports in the US and never drop off, you're on the right side of the cabotage rules.
- TorKlingberg 10y ago
  That sounds like a giant waste. There must be many empty seats New York-LA, at least one for each passenger flying LA-Sydney.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    Qantas can't do much about this at the moment. Their current widebody fleet consists of: * Airbus A330-200, maximum range 8,360mi. * Airbus A330-300, maximum range 7,300mi. * Airbus A380-800, maximum range 9,400mi. * Boeing 747-400, maximum range 8,350mi. * Boeing 747-400ER, maximum range 8,820mi. But the great-circle distance JFK-SYD is 9,950mi. It was only recently that they were able to start DFW-SYD as a nonstop with the A380; the 747s used previously had to make a stop in Brisbane. And once it went nonstop, it was the longest regularly-scheduled commercial airline flight in the world until March of this year, when Emirates began flying nonstop from Dubai to Auckland. Currently, Qantas is said to be evaluating the next-generation 777 variants for possible nonstop service to and from New York, but until then they'll have to make a stop somewhere. They have the same issue in the other direction, too: they partner with Emirates so they can use Dubai as a halfway point for their flights to and from Europe.

by bahmboo 10y ago

niftich 10y ago

But they do, and some specifically offer US flag vessels on certain routes. However, like you said, the Jones Act only applies to US-to-US shipments, whereas most cargo is coming and going from overseas -- so it's typically a non-issue. Here's some actual schedules showing real routes calling at multiple US ports: [1] http://www.cosco-usa.com/fpdb/Services/schedules.aspx http://www.cosco-usa.com/fpdb/Services/schedules.aspx [2] PDF: http://www.hamburgsud-line.com/hsdg/media/hamburgsd/documents_1/regionalinformation/northamerica/usa/news/2014_2/FirstSpirit_1418156439859Hamburg_Suds_new_Asia-US_service.pdf http://www.hamburgsud-line.com/hsdg/media/hamburgsd/document... [3] PDF: https://www.msc.com/getattachment/dfebb208-935e-4060-b0c7-a514efd1cfdd https://www.msc.com/getattachment/dfebb208-935e-4060-b0c7-a5...

glup 10y ago
so it's typically a non-issue— unless you live in Puerto Rico. http://www.globaltrademag.com/global-trade-daily/news/legislation-would-exempt-puerto-rico-from-the-jones-act http://www.globaltrademag.com/global-trade-daily/news/legisl...
thomasthomas 10y ago
used to work for a container shipper, there is absolutely zero intra-US transportation via container vessels. The multiple US port calls in a string such as NY - NFK - SAV are discharge - discharge - load or something of the variant. its not picking up containers at NY and discharging same containers in SAV. besides, I can't think of any use-cases where container shipping within US would be sensible. US company supply chains aren't designed in a way where procurement activities are dispersed and could benefit from intra-US container shipping. unless someone can think of a company? another note: IIRC theres a lot of traffic that discharges at LA and rails to HOU. even with the expanded canal, this is the most cost efficient way to get cargo from asia to houston. trans-pacific vessels are > 10k TEU so if a supplier wanted to go through panama canal, you'd have to use smaller trans-pacific vessel which would raise shippers unit cost thus raising the suppliers cost. if you're a company that relies heavily on asian imports, your facilities are typically located on the west coast to avoid extra transportation cost anyway. i don't think this news is that impactful

ubernostrum 10y ago

The rules can be satisfied so long as you're careful. Airlines do this routinely; Qantas, for example, flies New York (JFK) to Sydney, with a stop in Los Angeles. But you can only buy the ticket New York-Sydney or LA-Sydney, not New York-LA, and this is why. So long as anything or anyone you deliver originated at a port outside the US, or you only ever pick up at ports in the US and never drop off, you're on the right side of the cabotage rules.

TorKlingberg 10y ago
That sounds like a giant waste. There must be many empty seats New York-LA, at least one for each passenger flying LA-Sydney.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  Qantas can't do much about this at the moment. Their current widebody fleet consists of: * Airbus A330-200, maximum range 8,360mi. * Airbus A330-300, maximum range 7,300mi. * Airbus A380-800, maximum range 9,400mi. * Boeing 747-400, maximum range 8,350mi. * Boeing 747-400ER, maximum range 8,820mi. But the great-circle distance JFK-SYD is 9,950mi. It was only recently that they were able to start DFW-SYD as a nonstop with the A380; the 747s used previously had to make a stop in Brisbane. And once it went nonstop, it was the longest regularly-scheduled commercial airline flight in the world until March of this year, when Emirates began flying nonstop from Dubai to Auckland. Currently, Qantas is said to be evaluating the next-generation 777 variants for possible nonstop service to and from New York, but until then they'll have to make a stop somewhere. They have the same issue in the other direction, too: they partner with Emirates so they can use Dubai as a halfway point for their flights to and from Europe.