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Apple’s research secrecy hurts industry and academic research

28 points by stevep2007 10y ago

stevep2007 10y ago
Co-founder of MIT Media Lab Nicholas Negroponte was reported to have said " “[Apple] has not written one research paper or attended any external research meetings, such as working groups, government-funded workshops, or held their own onsite research meetings with external scientists in the way Google, Microsoft and Facebook often do.”
zepto 10y ago
Firstly, the research is paid for and is public domain - that's the whole point - so that people can use it without paying. Secondly, the author betrays himself by dismissing Apple's open source efforts. Their contribution to WebKit is the only reason there is competition in the browser space, and saying Swift and LLVM are 'proprietary' and dismissing their impact is either ignorant or dishonest. As far as I can see LLVM is the backbone of a huge amount of academic programming language research. Thirdly, Apple's photos 'AI' seems like a pretty modest application. Hardly groundbreaking stuff that they are keeping 'secret'. If they owe taxes for this, then all corporations owe taxes for ideas they've incorporated.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Their contribution to WebKit is the only reason there is competition in the browser space There have been competing closed-source browsers, plus Mozilla, that weren't dependent on WebKit. Without Apple's open-source work on WebKit, maybe Google wouldn't have done Chrome (or maybe Google would have forked Firefox as its starting point, instead), but there'd still be browser competition.
_ph_ 10y ago
I am offended by this kind of headlines. In the field of software, Apple uses open source and provides a lot of open source of their doing to the community. So, if there is an imbalance in the field of science, it should be discussed for sure. But if I am offended by Apple's Photos, it is for other reasons. Edit: my comment refers to the top headline of the article, also used in the link from Hacker News when I wrote it "Why Apple’s Photos announcement should offend you"
- patorjk 10y ago
  It'd be nice if HackerNews put a star or something by headlines that have changed. I was really confused about what you were saying until I read your edit.
  - dharmon 10y ago
    And doubly so for when they change the underlying link! It is frustrating to make a comment then get a response, "ugh, didn't you even read the article?" Uh, yes, I did, but it was a different article!
aub3bhat 10y ago
Consider the fact that Google open-sourced pioneering RAPPOR when it started using it for collecting information about malicious websites visited by the users on Chrome. Apple on the other hand is collecting far more invasive data about keystrokes while hiding the details of implementation. Why should we trust whoever apple trots out at its keynote? How is this different from people who trusted Theranos since its board was filled with former secretary of state and such. Apples approach towards research and privacy is designed to make press headlines and fool reporters similar to Theranos. Its time to hold Apple to standards of Peer Review as practiced by Google, Facebook and others. https://research.googleblog.com/2014/10/learning-statistics-with-privacy-aided.html?m=1 https://research.googleblog.com/2014/10/learning-statistics-...
- yardie 10y ago
  Apple on the other hand is collecting far more invasive data about keystrokes Wait what?! Do you have any evidence of this or you just pulling this out of your butt?
  - aub3bhat 10y ago
    "Improving quicktype predictions" => "sending keystrokes with randomized response" https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/14/apple-differential-privacy/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/14/apple-differential-priva...
    - zepto 10y ago
      The article contradicts your statement.
      - aub3bhat 10y ago
        If you assume that the Apple implementation is perfect then sure it does contradict. Hell given the amount of information people store on cloud, It might not even be a big deal. But its not wrong to seek verification via peer review since they are making bold claims.
orik 10y ago
"Why Apple’s Photos announcement should offend you" What a click-baity article.
yanilkr 10y ago
Apple does things that are good for themselves and their users. The scope is narrow, they are not biased by existing ways of thinking and most of the time they deliver. Thats a very lean mindset. They are doing something right. I cant complain that they are not doing enough of something.

28 points by stevep2007 10y ago

stevep2007 10y ago

Co-founder of MIT Media Lab Nicholas Negroponte was reported to have said " “[Apple] has not written one research paper or attended any external research meetings, such as working groups, government-funded workshops, or held their own onsite research meetings with external scientists in the way Google, Microsoft and Facebook often do.”

zepto 10y ago

Firstly, the research is paid for and is public domain - that's the whole point - so that people can use it without paying. Secondly, the author betrays himself by dismissing Apple's open source efforts. Their contribution to WebKit is the only reason there is competition in the browser space, and saying Swift and LLVM are 'proprietary' and dismissing their impact is either ignorant or dishonest. As far as I can see LLVM is the backbone of a huge amount of academic programming language research. Thirdly, Apple's photos 'AI' seems like a pretty modest application. Hardly groundbreaking stuff that they are keeping 'secret'. If they owe taxes for this, then all corporations owe taxes for ideas they've incorporated.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> Their contribution to WebKit is the only reason there is competition in the browser space There have been competing closed-source browsers, plus Mozilla, that weren't dependent on WebKit. Without Apple's open-source work on WebKit, maybe Google wouldn't have done Chrome (or maybe Google would have forked Firefox as its starting point, instead), but there'd still be browser competition.

_ph_ 10y ago

I am offended by this kind of headlines. In the field of software, Apple uses open source and provides a lot of open source of their doing to the community. So, if there is an imbalance in the field of science, it should be discussed for sure. But if I am offended by Apple's Photos, it is for other reasons. Edit: my comment refers to the top headline of the article, also used in the link from Hacker News when I wrote it "Why Apple’s Photos announcement should offend you"

patorjk 10y ago
It'd be nice if HackerNews put a star or something by headlines that have changed. I was really confused about what you were saying until I read your edit.
- dharmon 10y ago
  And doubly so for when they change the underlying link! It is frustrating to make a comment then get a response, "ugh, didn't you even read the article?" Uh, yes, I did, but it was a different article!

aub3bhat 10y ago

Consider the fact that Google open-sourced pioneering RAPPOR when it started using it for collecting information about malicious websites visited by the users on Chrome. Apple on the other hand is collecting far more invasive data about keystrokes while hiding the details of implementation. Why should we trust whoever apple trots out at its keynote? How is this different from people who trusted Theranos since its board was filled with former secretary of state and such. Apples approach towards research and privacy is designed to make press headlines and fool reporters similar to Theranos. Its time to hold Apple to standards of Peer Review as practiced by Google, Facebook and others. https://research.googleblog.com/2014/10/learning-statistics-with-privacy-aided.html?m=1 https://research.googleblog.com/2014/10/learning-statistics-...

yardie 10y ago
Apple on the other hand is collecting far more invasive data about keystrokes Wait what?! Do you have any evidence of this or you just pulling this out of your butt?
- aub3bhat 10y ago
  "Improving quicktype predictions" => "sending keystrokes with randomized response" https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/14/apple-differential-privacy/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/14/apple-differential-priva...
  - zepto 10y ago
    The article contradicts your statement.
    - aub3bhat 10y ago
      If you assume that the Apple implementation is perfect then sure it does contradict. Hell given the amount of information people store on cloud, It might not even be a big deal. But its not wrong to seek verification via peer review since they are making bold claims.

orik 10y ago

"Why Apple’s Photos announcement should offend you" What a click-baity article.

yanilkr 10y ago

Apple does things that are good for themselves and their users. The scope is narrow, they are not biased by existing ways of thinking and most of the time they deliver. Thats a very lean mindset. They are doing something right. I cant complain that they are not doing enough of something.