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https://blog.codinghorror.com/web-discussions-flat-by-design/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/web-discussions-flat-by-design...

Macha 10y ago
The continued success of Reddit (basically wiping out flat by default web forums) and the fact that Facebook has at some point between then and now introduced threading seem to prove it isn't too complex for most users. Only the old vBulletin pagination + threading model was.
- danneu 10y ago
  Meanwhile you can't have deep discussion on Reddit or HN. When a new submission is made, the peanut gallery storms the top-level. Then a little bit of discussion nests a few levels, but it's pretty much a one-on-one discussion due to the nesting. And since topics can't be bumped, the discussion is ephemeral. And if you have something to say on a topic that's more than 24 hours old, then only the person you're replying to will see it. Traditional forums have other issues, but longform discussion among multiple people over periods of time is possible.
  - jotux 10y ago
    I feel exactly the opposite. Traditional, non-nested, forums with more than a few users end up with many pages of @author comments that make it difficult to track the course of the conversation. With nested comments I know exactly who someone is replying to and the topic they're discussing. I think the issues you're pointing out (top-level peanut gallery, no bumping, >24 hours old) are more problems with news-driven websites than nesting vs non-nesting. If you had a reddit-style nested private niche-topic forum the pace would be slower and the problems you point out would probably be less of an issue.
bhaak 10y ago
I have read this piece before but I mostly disagree. "Putting aside Usenet as a relic and artifact of the past, [...]" I think this is a crucial sentence for the whole post. He brushes aside the probably best example for a threading model. He never asks the questions "why did it work on Usenet?", "why didn't/doesn't it work on the browser?", and "could we make it work in the browser?". Most of his arguments concern wrong UI designs for a threaded model. For example "you are talking to everyone". The argument that the reply button leads people to reply to the wrong message is completely refuted by reddit. It's just that the location of the reply button has to be carefully chosen and on reddit they have done it right. There's one reply button for the thread and one on every message. I usually can accept opinionated design decisions but in the case of discourse, they implemented a half-assed solution. You can expand replies in discussions but then you can't drill down and expand the replies to those replies.

Macha 10y ago

The continued success of Reddit (basically wiping out flat by default web forums) and the fact that Facebook has at some point between then and now introduced threading seem to prove it isn't too complex for most users. Only the old vBulletin pagination + threading model was.

danneu 10y ago
Meanwhile you can't have deep discussion on Reddit or HN. When a new submission is made, the peanut gallery storms the top-level. Then a little bit of discussion nests a few levels, but it's pretty much a one-on-one discussion due to the nesting. And since topics can't be bumped, the discussion is ephemeral. And if you have something to say on a topic that's more than 24 hours old, then only the person you're replying to will see it. Traditional forums have other issues, but longform discussion among multiple people over periods of time is possible.
- jotux 10y ago
  I feel exactly the opposite. Traditional, non-nested, forums with more than a few users end up with many pages of @author comments that make it difficult to track the course of the conversation. With nested comments I know exactly who someone is replying to and the topic they're discussing. I think the issues you're pointing out (top-level peanut gallery, no bumping, >24 hours old) are more problems with news-driven websites than nesting vs non-nesting. If you had a reddit-style nested private niche-topic forum the pace would be slower and the problems you point out would probably be less of an issue.

bhaak 10y ago

I have read this piece before but I mostly disagree. "Putting aside Usenet as a relic and artifact of the past, [...]" I think this is a crucial sentence for the whole post. He brushes aside the probably best example for a threading model. He never asks the questions "why did it work on Usenet?", "why didn't/doesn't it work on the browser?", and "could we make it work in the browser?". Most of his arguments concern wrong UI designs for a threaded model. For example "you are talking to everyone". The argument that the reply button leads people to reply to the wrong message is completely refuted by reddit. It's just that the location of the reply button has to be carefully chosen and on reddit they have done it right. There's one reply button for the thread and one on every message. I usually can accept opinionated design decisions but in the case of discourse, they implemented a half-assed solution. You can expand replies in discussions but then you can't drill down and expand the replies to those replies.