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It is the elected European Parliament that passes the laws proposed by the Commission. Also the Parliament can ask the Commission to propose legislation.

by helen842000 10y ago

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "It is the elected European Parliament that passes the laws proposed by the Commission." All they can do is say yes or no. The European Commission can keep pushing forward the same legislation until they get a yes. Even referendums aren't enough to stop the EC, look at what happened with the vote on the European Constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitu... As you can see, the outcome of the referendums resulted in the European Constitution being rejected, so what the EC did was to take the main changes and push them through as amendments to existing agreements. This group of changes is known as the Lisbon Treaty. > "Also the Parliament can ask the Commission to propose legislation." That's not the same as having the power to propose legislation. Anyone can ask the Commission to propose legislation, including lobbyists (there are over 30,000 lobbyists in Brussels, and you can be sure they're focused on influencing the ones with power to make changes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-european-parliament-brussels-corporate https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro... ) and the general public (through a European Citizens Initiative). Just because you can ask for changes, doesn't mean the EC has to listen to you. As I've said in a different comment, the main priority of the EC is to work in the best interests of the EU, not the individual member countries.
- ghzghz2 10y ago
  > Just because you can ask for changes, doesn't mean the EC has to listen to you. As I've said in a different comment, the main priority of the EC is to work in the best interests of the EU, not the individual member countries. The parliament has power of censure over the EC so in theory the EC could be made to listen. I do agree with you that the EU is a democratic mess and share your concern about lobbyists. I do however struggle to swallow Democracy as the main argument for Brexit when we have: * a government in the UK elected by 25% of the possible electorate. * parties gaining > 10% of the national vote having no representation in UK parliament * an un-elected house of Lords * a prime minister (who we technically don't elect and who can change at any time) who magically inherits powers from the queen to sign treaties and go to war I look forward to the shining lights of the Brexit camp taking on these democratic deficits with the same enthusiasm in the future.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    > "The parliament has power of censure over the EC so in theory the EC could be made to listen." Could you explain further what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the term 'power of censure'. > "I look forward to the shining lights of the Brexit camp taking on these democratic deficits with the same enthusiasm in the future." I don't care about what the 'shining lights' do, I know I'd gladly do so. First step in my opinion would be to renew the push towards proportional representation (and not the Alternative Vote cop out we were asked about before).
    - ghzghz2 10y ago
      B. Motion of censure There has been provision for a motion of censure against the Commission (under what is now Article 234 TFEU) ever since the Treaty of Rome. Such a motion requires a two-thirds majority of the votes cast, representing a majority of Parliament’s component members. If it is passed, the Commission must resign as a body
      - ZenoArrow 10y ago
        Thank you. You've given me some hope that the EU can be reformed from the inside. I'll still be voting to leave, but at least I'll know where to direct my attention if we stay in.

It is the elected European Parliament that passes the laws proposed by the Commission. Also the Parliament can ask the Commission to propose legislation.

ZenoArrow 10y ago

> "It is the elected European Parliament that passes the laws proposed by the Commission." All they can do is say yes or no. The European Commission can keep pushing forward the same legislation until they get a yes. Even referendums aren't enough to stop the EC, look at what happened with the vote on the European Constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitu... As you can see, the outcome of the referendums resulted in the European Constitution being rejected, so what the EC did was to take the main changes and push them through as amendments to existing agreements. This group of changes is known as the Lisbon Treaty. > "Also the Parliament can ask the Commission to propose legislation." That's not the same as having the power to propose legislation. Anyone can ask the Commission to propose legislation, including lobbyists (there are over 30,000 lobbyists in Brussels, and you can be sure they're focused on influencing the ones with power to make changes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-european-parliament-brussels-corporate https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro... ) and the general public (through a European Citizens Initiative). Just because you can ask for changes, doesn't mean the EC has to listen to you. As I've said in a different comment, the main priority of the EC is to work in the best interests of the EU, not the individual member countries.

ghzghz2 10y ago
> Just because you can ask for changes, doesn't mean the EC has to listen to you. As I've said in a different comment, the main priority of the EC is to work in the best interests of the EU, not the individual member countries. The parliament has power of censure over the EC so in theory the EC could be made to listen. I do agree with you that the EU is a democratic mess and share your concern about lobbyists. I do however struggle to swallow Democracy as the main argument for Brexit when we have: * a government in the UK elected by 25% of the possible electorate. * parties gaining > 10% of the national vote having no representation in UK parliament * an un-elected house of Lords * a prime minister (who we technically don't elect and who can change at any time) who magically inherits powers from the queen to sign treaties and go to war I look forward to the shining lights of the Brexit camp taking on these democratic deficits with the same enthusiasm in the future.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "The parliament has power of censure over the EC so in theory the EC could be made to listen." Could you explain further what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the term 'power of censure'. > "I look forward to the shining lights of the Brexit camp taking on these democratic deficits with the same enthusiasm in the future." I don't care about what the 'shining lights' do, I know I'd gladly do so. First step in my opinion would be to renew the push towards proportional representation (and not the Alternative Vote cop out we were asked about before).
  - ghzghz2 10y ago
    B. Motion of censure There has been provision for a motion of censure against the Commission (under what is now Article 234 TFEU) ever since the Treaty of Rome. Such a motion requires a two-thirds majority of the votes cast, representing a majority of Parliament’s component members. If it is passed, the Commission must resign as a body
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      Thank you. You've given me some hope that the EU can be reformed from the inside. I'll still be voting to leave, but at least I'll know where to direct my attention if we stay in.