5 ms·

No police, courts, legal system? Where does the money come from when there are no taxes?

jMyles 10y ago
Yeah, it's a hard thing to think through. (I shudder to suggest, but posit for theoretical consideration), a currency whose blockchain has UBI built-in?
- hsod 10y ago
  not quite what you're talking about since it's centrally managed, but check out the Gresham Dollar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11441696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11441696
- godzillabrennus 10y ago
  A block chain where all participants get a minimal income of coinage simply by existing in the mix? That's an interesting idea but a far cry from a government that exists solely to issue currency without all the other important functions that make it a government.
- slavik81 10y ago
  How do you ensure each person has exactly one identity on the block chain?
  - jMyles 10y ago
    Obviously this is a hugely tough question. Some kind of reputation / web of trust? I bet the Etherium / Counterparty guys have an idea.
  - johncolanduoni 10y ago
    Well since you're still positing a government (which to make this work would likely also need to have some manner of projecting will so that people are forced to use this monetary system instead of a competing one) the valid identities on the block chain could be handed out and verified by a central system (a la social security numbers).
    - politician 10y ago
      Don't be naive; duplicate SSNs exist.
      - johncolanduoni 10y ago
        I'm not being naive; I never said social security numbers compared in quality to signed cryptographic credentials. The point it is the same basic idea (hand out an officially accepted identity). Duplication isn't even the biggest disadvantage of the current system. I really wish we had an identity with real non-repudiation with our current government structure.
    - lmm 10y ago
      Right, but at that point you need people who register births and a fair chunk of the infrastructure of a conventional government.
j-pb 10y ago
You let the government simply print more of it. This replaced taxation with inflation, having the positive side effect that it pushes people to favour investment over capital hoarding, but incentivizes dept at the same time.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  I think you'll find that most people in favour of UBI are not in favour of incentivizing people to go into debt.
  - j-pb 10y ago
    Yeah, that should have been disincentivizing dept. Autocorrect screwed me over there and I just realised. The effect is actually as follows. It disincentivizes dept because there is no reason for lending (as interest is eaten up by inflation), and at the same time it's actually alleviating crippling dept because the relative worth of the dept (what you could actually buy with that money) diminishes with inflation.
te_chris 10y ago
Capital/wealth taxes
- eru 10y ago
  Tax land instead. Supply is fixed, so no economic deadweight loss. (But this is all orthogonal to the original question.)

Yeah, it's a hard thing to think through. (I shudder to suggest, but posit for theoretical consideration), a currency whose blockchain has UBI built-in?

hsod 10y ago
not quite what you're talking about since it's centrally managed, but check out the Gresham Dollar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11441696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11441696
godzillabrennus 10y ago
A block chain where all participants get a minimal income of coinage simply by existing in the mix? That's an interesting idea but a far cry from a government that exists solely to issue currency without all the other important functions that make it a government.
slavik81 10y ago
How do you ensure each person has exactly one identity on the block chain?
- jMyles 10y ago
  Obviously this is a hugely tough question. Some kind of reputation / web of trust? I bet the Etherium / Counterparty guys have an idea.
- johncolanduoni 10y ago
  Well since you're still positing a government (which to make this work would likely also need to have some manner of projecting will so that people are forced to use this monetary system instead of a competing one) the valid identities on the block chain could be handed out and verified by a central system (a la social security numbers).
  - politician 10y ago
    Don't be naive; duplicate SSNs exist.
    - johncolanduoni 10y ago
      I'm not being naive; I never said social security numbers compared in quality to signed cryptographic credentials. The point it is the same basic idea (hand out an officially accepted identity). Duplication isn't even the biggest disadvantage of the current system. I really wish we had an identity with real non-repudiation with our current government structure.
  - lmm 10y ago
    Right, but at that point you need people who register births and a fair chunk of the infrastructure of a conventional government.

j-pb 10y ago

You let the government simply print more of it. This replaced taxation with inflation, having the positive side effect that it pushes people to favour investment over capital hoarding, but incentivizes dept at the same time.

vertex-four 10y ago
I think you'll find that most people in favour of UBI are not in favour of incentivizing people to go into debt.
- j-pb 10y ago
  Yeah, that should have been disincentivizing dept. Autocorrect screwed me over there and I just realised. The effect is actually as follows. It disincentivizes dept because there is no reason for lending (as interest is eaten up by inflation), and at the same time it's actually alleviating crippling dept because the relative worth of the dept (what you could actually buy with that money) diminishes with inflation.

te_chris 10y ago

Capital/wealth taxes

eru 10y ago
Tax land instead. Supply is fixed, so no economic deadweight loss. (But this is all orthogonal to the original question.)