4 ms·

I would consider it progress. The only data loss to Google that I was able to find was [0], where a single datacenter was hit by lightning 4 times in short suc

I would consider it progress. The only data loss to Google that I was able to find was [0], where a single datacenter was hit by lightning 4 times in short succession, and 0.000001% of disk space in said datacenter was lost. And only because the lost data consisted of recent writes that had yet to be backed up. And only because the lightning affected the AUX power systems in a way that they have since committed to fixing (or perhaps have fixed). IMO, cloud storage is the most reliable way to store data, and Google the most reliable. I never know if I'm going to drop my laptop and lose all work. Or if the harddrive in my server is going to give up and burst into flames. But the great thing about cloud storage is that it abstracts away hardware components and failures so it's somebody else's problem. And they worry a lot more about data loss than I do. Cloud data storage is designed with the assumption that hardware is faulty. Spread redundant copies of data to geographically isolated datacenters, and you're much safer than some admin of averagejoe.com keeping his data on a single harddrive in his closet. [0] - https://status.cloud.google.com/incident/compute/15056#5719570367119360 https://status.cloud.google.com/incident/compute/15056#57195...

Johnny555 10y ago
IMO, cloud storage is the most reliable way to store data, and Google the most reliable Does Google publish any durability numbers? Amazon claims 99.999999999% (11 9's) for S3 and Glacier (and considerably worse for EBS volumes). How does Google compare?
- eru 10y ago
  Don't have numbers here, but it's pretty good, and we regularly move the data around and check it. (Ie it's not just rotting on a hard disk somewhere.)
toyg 10y ago
The problem is not just DR, but anything that can result in data loss. There was the one where they'd delete stuff you didn't mean to [1], the one where they got stuff back by the scruff of the neck [2]... i can't be arsed to look further back, but I'm pretty sure shit happened earlier as well (and I'm just looking at GMail). And of course there are tons of horror stories about accounts disabled or deleted for commercial or other unspecified reasons, because once you put your trust in another entity, that's it, they can do as they please. Their track record might be as good as anyone's, but it still has a few holes and people should prepare for it rather than considering "the cloud" as a magic bucket. (disclaimer: my life would probably be ruined by losing the gmail account I've held since private-beta days, because life is short and I'm shit at sysadmin; but there's a big difference between a lone old geek and large organizations...) [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2548010/Has-Gmail-lost-YOUR-emails-Glitch-causes-thousands-users-accidentally-delete-messages-report-spam.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2548010/Has-G... [2] http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/03/01/google-turns-to-tape-to-rescue-lost-gmail/ http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/03/01/googl...
- eru 10y ago
  I don't get the problem with [2]? The tape worked exactly as intended.
Spooky23 10y ago
The only thing between your data and /dev/null in a cloud data center is a vacation and expired credit card.
- thedudemabry 10y ago
  Thank goodness storage is cheap. I've had a revolving door of credit/debit card numbers over the last few years thanks to identity theft, and the SaaS providers I use for personal stuff are really good about keeping my data around even after invalid credit-card auto-pay cycles fail. For more serious data, I have to imagine that SLAs generally define data retention periods even after exiting the agreement, right? (I legitimately don't know)
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    This is also a bit "above my pay grade", but i've heard bits and pieces about how our company has some kind of agreement setup that if there is a billing dispute that there is a minimum amount of time that must pass before they can shut us down. Obviously it doesn't help if the company goes under, but it's not as simple as the parent commenters statement.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    It depends on the vendor. I negotiated a pretty big agreement a few years ago and were able to get the vendor to agree to hold data for a year after termination. We also backup to another provider. That said, over the years I've witnessed all manner of billing and payment fuckups. I'm not trying to say that cloud is bad -- but that billing snafu is a risk factor that you need to understand and account for.
lazyant 10y ago
one point anecdote: Google's Keep lost my data after it decided to upgrade itself (gone from phone and cloud). Just some notes but still.
- robbbbbbbbb 10y ago
  Check if they are in your archive. I thought it deleted mine too however I just found them in there.

Johnny555 10y ago

IMO, cloud storage is the most reliable way to store data, and Google the most reliable Does Google publish any durability numbers? Amazon claims 99.999999999% (11 9's) for S3 and Glacier (and considerably worse for EBS volumes). How does Google compare?

eru 10y ago
Don't have numbers here, but it's pretty good, and we regularly move the data around and check it. (Ie it's not just rotting on a hard disk somewhere.)

toyg 10y ago

The problem is not just DR, but anything that can result in data loss. There was the one where they'd delete stuff you didn't mean to [1], the one where they got stuff back by the scruff of the neck [2]... i can't be arsed to look further back, but I'm pretty sure shit happened earlier as well (and I'm just looking at GMail). And of course there are tons of horror stories about accounts disabled or deleted for commercial or other unspecified reasons, because once you put your trust in another entity, that's it, they can do as they please. Their track record might be as good as anyone's, but it still has a few holes and people should prepare for it rather than considering "the cloud" as a magic bucket. (disclaimer: my life would probably be ruined by losing the gmail account I've held since private-beta days, because life is short and I'm shit at sysadmin; but there's a big difference between a lone old geek and large organizations...) [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2548010/Has-Gmail-lost-YOUR-emails-Glitch-causes-thousands-users-accidentally-delete-messages-report-spam.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2548010/Has-G... [2] http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/03/01/google-turns-to-tape-to-rescue-lost-gmail/ http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/03/01/googl...

eru 10y ago
I don't get the problem with [2]? The tape worked exactly as intended.

Spooky23 10y ago

The only thing between your data and /dev/null in a cloud data center is a vacation and expired credit card.

thedudemabry 10y ago
Thank goodness storage is cheap. I've had a revolving door of credit/debit card numbers over the last few years thanks to identity theft, and the SaaS providers I use for personal stuff are really good about keeping my data around even after invalid credit-card auto-pay cycles fail. For more serious data, I have to imagine that SLAs generally define data retention periods even after exiting the agreement, right? (I legitimately don't know)
- Klathmon 10y ago
  This is also a bit "above my pay grade", but i've heard bits and pieces about how our company has some kind of agreement setup that if there is a billing dispute that there is a minimum amount of time that must pass before they can shut us down. Obviously it doesn't help if the company goes under, but it's not as simple as the parent commenters statement.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  It depends on the vendor. I negotiated a pretty big agreement a few years ago and were able to get the vendor to agree to hold data for a year after termination. We also backup to another provider. That said, over the years I've witnessed all manner of billing and payment fuckups. I'm not trying to say that cloud is bad -- but that billing snafu is a risk factor that you need to understand and account for.

lazyant 10y ago

one point anecdote: Google's Keep lost my data after it decided to upgrade itself (gone from phone and cloud). Just some notes but still.

robbbbbbbbb 10y ago
Check if they are in your archive. I thought it deleted mine too however I just found them in there.