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> Honestly, I'd rather have a stone which was formed over geologic ages in the bowels of the Earth than one which was formed over the last month in a garage in

> Honestly, I'd rather have a stone which was formed over geologic ages in the bowels of the Earth than one which was formed over the last month in a garage in Hoboken. Can you elaborate on why you feel this way? The products are indistinguishable without an electron microscope, and you stated you don't want to contribute to the evils of the natural diamond trade. So what makes a "real" diamond so fucking desirable? The psychology of that baffles me.

jessriedel 10y ago
Couldn't you understand why someone would want a real meteorite, that had actually fallen from the sky, rather than a regular rock, even if they were indistinguishable to the untrained eye?
- morganvachon 10y ago
  Certainly, but compared to native rocks, meteorites are astonishingly rare. Natural diamonds are not at all rare; their scarcity is controlled by DeBeers, and this has been common knowledge for decades. Saying "I want a real diamond because it's rare" is about as juvenile a sentiment as one can have. Edit: Let me put it another way. Preferring a natural diamond to a lab-grown diamond when you know how they are obtained is tacit approval of murder, theft, and war, atrocities committed to ensure you get that "real" diamond on your finger. It's appalling that any sane, compassionate human being would be so flippant about the lives lost and families torn apart by the diamond trade.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    It's not about rarity. It's about the neatness of something that's been around for a long time (diamond) or flying through space (space rock). It's just neat. I agree that it's a silly thing to make an engagement about, and that the trade is appalling. But let's not pretend it's not cooler on at least one axis to have an object formed inside the earth vs in a lab.
    - gre 10y ago
      Meteorites are made from different material from what is common on earth, whereas lab diamonds are chemically indistinguishable from mined diamonds. Plus, carbon in both manmade and mined diamonds is the same age...
      - MereInterest 10y ago
        Are manmade diamonds usually made from coal, charcoal, or atmospheric carbon? Because if it is either of the latter two, the resulting diamond will have a higher carbon-14 content than a mined diamond. That said, if you need a mass spectrometer to determine whether or not to buy jewelry, you're doing it wrong.
        diggernet 10y ago
        Now there's an interesting thought... Atmospheric carbon. How many people would pay extra (over the cost of other man-made diamonds, but still less than artificially-inflated natural diamonds) for a product marketed as "carbon-sequestering anti-climate-change diamonds"? That's an emotional attachment which could offset the emotional preference for natural diamonds.
        ars 10y ago
        You would need a lot of energy to separate the carbon from the co2. So your "green" idea actually makes things worse not better.
tehrei 10y ago
I don't eat GMO food, so I don't want to wear GMO jewellery, it's that simple.
TruthAndDare 10y ago
I guess it's the same think that makes any object with an interesting history appealing. People would rather have an original piece of art than a copy, cherish the pen that belonged to a deceased father more than an otherwise identical pen, and find greater interest in an archaeological artifact than in a modern reproduction.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Humans and the ol' lizard brain; atoms are atoms!
zeveb 10y ago
> > Honestly, I'd rather have a stone which was formed over geologic ages in the bowels of the Earth than one which was formed over the last month in a garage in Hoboken. > Can you elaborate on why you feel this way? I guess I can try, but I suspect that it's one of those things where different folks just have different mindsets. I think that it'd be amazing to have a stone (diamond, emerald, sapphire, amethyst — whatever) which was the result of long and slow processes operating over millions of years (in the case of diamonds, dating back to the Precambrian, before there were even plants). That's just incredibly cool! Sure, a lab-grown diamond is an interesting exemplar of man's technical artifice, but it's just not the same thing. It's an emotional difference, not a rational one.
- apricot 10y ago
  Just think about how long it took evolution to go from single-celled organisms to complex ones capable of growing diamonds!
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > I think that it'd be amazing to have a stone (diamond, emerald, sapphire, amethyst — whatever) which was the result of long and slow processes operating over millions of years (in the case of diamonds, dating back to the Precambrian, before there were even plants). That's just incredibly cool! There's nothing special about diamonds here. Go out and pick up some rocks.
  - kaybe 10y ago
    Where is here?
    - thaumasiotes 10y ago
      The text I quoted, or the comment I responded to.
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
Well, specifically for an engagement ring, "I'm cheap" is the opposite of the message you want to send. There's lots going on at the interpersonal level that's all about "You're worth it" (and "I can afford it") that isn't about cold, rational utility calculations at all.
- morganvachon 10y ago
  I think it depends on the person's mindset. My wife was thrilled that I got her a CZ instead of a mined diamond, specifically because she is against the atrocities of the diamond trade. I feel the same so it was a no-brainer. She would have had less respect for me if I'd given in to DeBeers' propaganda and marketing, not to mention the financial folly of spending a chunk of my savings towards a sentimental rock.
- jiiam 10y ago
  I think that there's a lot of bigotry to eradicate in the business of engagement. If, in order to get married, you need to give an impression of wealth you are essentially condoning a modern wife-buying practice. With the caveat that you're not even obtaining a dowry in exchange.
toyg 10y ago
When you buy a luxury item, you are paying for exclusivity, for uniqueness, more than for quality. This is why people will pay huge sums for this or that clearly-dreadful art piece: because its ownership alone is a statement of wealth and power based on the item's own uniqueness. It says you are the only person in the world to have the resources and knowledge to identify and acquire a unique item. This is the fundamental basis of any luxury market. Quality is a relatively secondary concern, and ethical considerations have appeared only in recent years. Think about one of those discoveries where a little sketch sold at a flea market turns out to be a Caravaggio or something: suddenly the value skyrockets; the art is exactly the same, it's uniqueness that has changed.
- prodmerc 10y ago
  oh yeah, the art, Jesus - even modern pieces go for 5 or 6 figures, as opposed to the nearly free digital art (which is sometimes breathtaking) that you can also print and frame...

jessriedel 10y ago

Couldn't you understand why someone would want a real meteorite, that had actually fallen from the sky, rather than a regular rock, even if they were indistinguishable to the untrained eye?

morganvachon 10y ago
Certainly, but compared to native rocks, meteorites are astonishingly rare. Natural diamonds are not at all rare; their scarcity is controlled by DeBeers, and this has been common knowledge for decades. Saying "I want a real diamond because it's rare" is about as juvenile a sentiment as one can have. Edit: Let me put it another way. Preferring a natural diamond to a lab-grown diamond when you know how they are obtained is tacit approval of murder, theft, and war, atrocities committed to ensure you get that "real" diamond on your finger. It's appalling that any sane, compassionate human being would be so flippant about the lives lost and families torn apart by the diamond trade.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  It's not about rarity. It's about the neatness of something that's been around for a long time (diamond) or flying through space (space rock). It's just neat. I agree that it's a silly thing to make an engagement about, and that the trade is appalling. But let's not pretend it's not cooler on at least one axis to have an object formed inside the earth vs in a lab.
  - gre 10y ago
    Meteorites are made from different material from what is common on earth, whereas lab diamonds are chemically indistinguishable from mined diamonds. Plus, carbon in both manmade and mined diamonds is the same age...
    - MereInterest 10y ago
      Are manmade diamonds usually made from coal, charcoal, or atmospheric carbon? Because if it is either of the latter two, the resulting diamond will have a higher carbon-14 content than a mined diamond. That said, if you need a mass spectrometer to determine whether or not to buy jewelry, you're doing it wrong.
      - diggernet 10y ago
        Now there's an interesting thought... Atmospheric carbon. How many people would pay extra (over the cost of other man-made diamonds, but still less than artificially-inflated natural diamonds) for a product marketed as "carbon-sequestering anti-climate-change diamonds"? That's an emotional attachment which could offset the emotional preference for natural diamonds.
        ars 10y ago
        You would need a lot of energy to separate the carbon from the co2. So your "green" idea actually makes things worse not better.

tehrei 10y ago

I don't eat GMO food, so I don't want to wear GMO jewellery, it's that simple.

TruthAndDare 10y ago

I guess it's the same think that makes any object with an interesting history appealing. People would rather have an original piece of art than a copy, cherish the pen that belonged to a deceased father more than an otherwise identical pen, and find greater interest in an archaeological artifact than in a modern reproduction.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Humans and the ol' lizard brain; atoms are atoms!

zeveb 10y ago

> > Honestly, I'd rather have a stone which was formed over geologic ages in the bowels of the Earth than one which was formed over the last month in a garage in Hoboken. > Can you elaborate on why you feel this way? I guess I can try, but I suspect that it's one of those things where different folks just have different mindsets. I think that it'd be amazing to have a stone (diamond, emerald, sapphire, amethyst — whatever) which was the result of long and slow processes operating over millions of years (in the case of diamonds, dating back to the Precambrian, before there were even plants). That's just incredibly cool! Sure, a lab-grown diamond is an interesting exemplar of man's technical artifice, but it's just not the same thing. It's an emotional difference, not a rational one.

apricot 10y ago
Just think about how long it took evolution to go from single-celled organisms to complex ones capable of growing diamonds!
thaumasiotes 10y ago
> I think that it'd be amazing to have a stone (diamond, emerald, sapphire, amethyst — whatever) which was the result of long and slow processes operating over millions of years (in the case of diamonds, dating back to the Precambrian, before there were even plants). That's just incredibly cool! There's nothing special about diamonds here. Go out and pick up some rocks.
- kaybe 10y ago
  Where is here?
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    The text I quoted, or the comment I responded to.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

Well, specifically for an engagement ring, "I'm cheap" is the opposite of the message you want to send. There's lots going on at the interpersonal level that's all about "You're worth it" (and "I can afford it") that isn't about cold, rational utility calculations at all.

morganvachon 10y ago
I think it depends on the person's mindset. My wife was thrilled that I got her a CZ instead of a mined diamond, specifically because she is against the atrocities of the diamond trade. I feel the same so it was a no-brainer. She would have had less respect for me if I'd given in to DeBeers' propaganda and marketing, not to mention the financial folly of spending a chunk of my savings towards a sentimental rock.
jiiam 10y ago
I think that there's a lot of bigotry to eradicate in the business of engagement. If, in order to get married, you need to give an impression of wealth you are essentially condoning a modern wife-buying practice. With the caveat that you're not even obtaining a dowry in exchange.

toyg 10y ago

When you buy a luxury item, you are paying for exclusivity, for uniqueness, more than for quality. This is why people will pay huge sums for this or that clearly-dreadful art piece: because its ownership alone is a statement of wealth and power based on the item's own uniqueness. It says you are the only person in the world to have the resources and knowledge to identify and acquire a unique item. This is the fundamental basis of any luxury market. Quality is a relatively secondary concern, and ethical considerations have appeared only in recent years. Think about one of those discoveries where a little sketch sold at a flea market turns out to be a Caravaggio or something: suddenly the value skyrockets; the art is exactly the same, it's uniqueness that has changed.

prodmerc 10y ago
oh yeah, the art, Jesus - even modern pieces go for 5 or 6 figures, as opposed to the nearly free digital art (which is sometimes breathtaking) that you can also print and frame...