3 ms·

>As of 2006, between 2/3 and 5/6 of black students in the top 25 schools are there only due to race. Thats a pretty bold claim that assumes 1. Any minority at

>As of 2006, between 2/3 and 5/6 of black students in the top 25 schools are there only due to race. Thats a pretty bold claim that assumes 1. Any minority at Princeton falls neatly into that trend, and isn't simply an outlier. 2. Princeton & Ivies weigh SAT scores significantly as part of the admissions process. 3. Princeton & Ivies use raw objective performance as the primary basis for acceptance. If 2 & 3 were true, you wouldn't see as much pressure for students to play 3 sports, 9 instruments, and have 300 other extra-currics to remain competitive for those spots. Anyone who believes that they just rank applicants by SAT scores and take the top N is a little bit delusional.

douche 10y ago
At the Ivies, you've got piles of white and Asian kids with perfect scores on the SAT, 4.0+ GPAs, etc. So you've got to do something to separate yourself from that herd in some way or another that catches the eye of somebody in the admissions office or otherwise ticks enough boxes on whatever rubric they are using this week. Competition for some of these places is completely insane. I remember the campus newspaper publishing admissions statistics and it was something like 8-9% of applications were accepted, at one of the smaller and less well-known ones. Of those, you have a few dozen with the same last names as buildings on campus, a couple hundred international students paying every dime, and maybe another hundred recruited athletes. They could admit an entire class of high school valedictorians and salutatorians if they felt like it.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
So 2/3-5/6 of black students at the top 25 schools are outliers? Or black students are wildly disproportionately likely to play 3 sports, 9 instruments and have 300 extra-currics? I'd love to see data supporting this claim. That sure goes against stereotypes, which suggest it's mainly Asian students who do that.
- nemothekid 10y ago
  >So 2/3-5/6 of black students at the top 25 schools are outliers? Princeton's total undergrad class size is about 2000 of which 7% identified as African-America (2000 * 7% * 25=3500). BLS says that was from a pool of 2.2MM students. (Assuming even population distribution of 13% African-American=286000). So of the potential 286000 African American students every year, 3500 are going to top 25 schools - which is 1.2%. Is it far fetched to assume that the top 1% of Black students are outliers (to your "study")? Keep in mind Asians are 5% of the American population, but make up 22% of Princeton's undergrad class. To me - it just looks like you are grasping at straws to make this conclusion. Basic statistics overwhelmingly backs up your "stereotype". To imply the admissions officers are giving minorities a whopping 80% preference to minorities, based of the data, shows that admissions officers are either incredibly incompetent at giving preferential treatment to minorities, or you are just talking out of your ass.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Lets go with your 3500 number. In 2006, 976 blacks scored above 700 in SAT math, and 1117 scored above 700 in SAT verbal. 1117 is a lot smaller than 3500. (Or the 3000 number the study uses.) (Note: 1400 SAT, or whatever that translates to on the current 2400 pt test, is table stakes for getting into a top 25 school.) I don't know why you put "study" in quotes - do you consider the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education to somehow be an "illegitimate" source? To imply the admissions officers are giving minorities a whopping 80% preference to minorities, based of the data, shows that admissions officers are either incredibly incompetent at giving preferential treatment to minorities, or you are just talking out of your ass. I don't understand. If you take 1200 qualified black students and turn them into 3000 enrollees, how is that not a highly successful preferential treatment program? Similarly, the relevant comparison when looking at Asians is not what percentage of the American population they make up. A more relevant comparison would be what percentage of the top students are Asian. I can't find top scores, but a quick google search suggests Asians do in fact outperform everyone else on average. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171

douche 10y ago

At the Ivies, you've got piles of white and Asian kids with perfect scores on the SAT, 4.0+ GPAs, etc. So you've got to do something to separate yourself from that herd in some way or another that catches the eye of somebody in the admissions office or otherwise ticks enough boxes on whatever rubric they are using this week. Competition for some of these places is completely insane. I remember the campus newspaper publishing admissions statistics and it was something like 8-9% of applications were accepted, at one of the smaller and less well-known ones. Of those, you have a few dozen with the same last names as buildings on campus, a couple hundred international students paying every dime, and maybe another hundred recruited athletes. They could admit an entire class of high school valedictorians and salutatorians if they felt like it.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

So 2/3-5/6 of black students at the top 25 schools are outliers? Or black students are wildly disproportionately likely to play 3 sports, 9 instruments and have 300 extra-currics? I'd love to see data supporting this claim. That sure goes against stereotypes, which suggest it's mainly Asian students who do that.

nemothekid 10y ago
>So 2/3-5/6 of black students at the top 25 schools are outliers? Princeton's total undergrad class size is about 2000 of which 7% identified as African-America (2000 * 7% * 25=3500). BLS says that was from a pool of 2.2MM students. (Assuming even population distribution of 13% African-American=286000). So of the potential 286000 African American students every year, 3500 are going to top 25 schools - which is 1.2%. Is it far fetched to assume that the top 1% of Black students are outliers (to your "study")? Keep in mind Asians are 5% of the American population, but make up 22% of Princeton's undergrad class. To me - it just looks like you are grasping at straws to make this conclusion. Basic statistics overwhelmingly backs up your "stereotype". To imply the admissions officers are giving minorities a whopping 80% preference to minorities, based of the data, shows that admissions officers are either incredibly incompetent at giving preferential treatment to minorities, or you are just talking out of your ass.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Lets go with your 3500 number. In 2006, 976 blacks scored above 700 in SAT math, and 1117 scored above 700 in SAT verbal. 1117 is a lot smaller than 3500. (Or the 3000 number the study uses.) (Note: 1400 SAT, or whatever that translates to on the current 2400 pt test, is table stakes for getting into a top 25 school.) I don't know why you put "study" in quotes - do you consider the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education to somehow be an "illegitimate" source? To imply the admissions officers are giving minorities a whopping 80% preference to minorities, based of the data, shows that admissions officers are either incredibly incompetent at giving preferential treatment to minorities, or you are just talking out of your ass. I don't understand. If you take 1200 qualified black students and turn them into 3000 enrollees, how is that not a highly successful preferential treatment program? Similarly, the relevant comparison when looking at Asians is not what percentage of the American population they make up. A more relevant comparison would be what percentage of the top students are Asian. I can't find top scores, but a quick google search suggests Asians do in fact outperform everyone else on average. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171