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Right -- it seemed fine until "The Offer" showed up. You know who takes offers like that? The people who can find new jobs really easily. It's a recipe for losi

Right -- it seemed fine until "The Offer" showed up. You know who takes offers like that? The people who can find new jobs really easily. It's a recipe for losing good people.

mathattack 10y ago
Yes. And anyone who was WIP interviewing.
ams6110 10y ago
It reads to me like the opening steps to a classic "Death March." They even talk about "busting ass" and "staying late." BTDT. I'd be out by the end of the day if I got that email.
zupa-hu 10y ago
Maybe you are statistically right, maybe I'm just the outliar, but I'd actually love getting this letter. I'd rather work late at a company fighting for its life, with a team that holds together, in a place where it actually matters if you get something done, than at a stable company that has no pressure and has tons of time getting things done. Get out of my way and let me get shit done. I'd definitely stay, let's rock! :D (I have zero connections to Zenefits.)
- HillRat 10y ago
  To be less generous than you, I see it as an invitation to death-march deadlines, desperate executive-level demands for unreasonable results, a likely spiral into oblivion that no operational improvements can stop, and essentially no meaningful rewards if you succeed. Last-minute large-scale payroll cuts generally means a company is in week-to-week mode. Voluntary RIF packages aren't likely to get better over time, so loyalty to the cause is really the only reason to stay as long as you're market-employable. And, no, no connections to Zenefits either, but it's not the first time I've seen this one play out. (Working with one right now, actually!)
- fishtoaster 10y ago
  I can definitely understand that sentiment. That's the main reason I like working at super-early-stage startups. Zenefits, though, sounds like you'd have all the rough parts of that experience (eg long hours) but little of the upside. And, because of both their size and their recent trouble with regulation, there's probably very little of the "get out of my way".
  - zupa-hu 10y ago
    indeed I had my best "get out of my way" experience when working at a startup
- st3v3r 10y ago
  And then be fired in 2 months? There are thousands of better things you could be doing with your time. Including, if you really want to work late, working on your own company, where you'll at least get to own the benefits of working late, instead of sacrificing yourself to make someone else rich.
  - zupa-hu 10y ago
    I am actually working on my own company so I can't argue here I guess. Still the letter does come off as positive to me. He sounded like he is putting the problems out in the open. Maybe I'm just young and inexperienced.
- golergka 10y ago
  The point is, I'm not sure Zenefits deserves people like you.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
smartician 10y ago
Especially dangerous because he's asking people to directly email HR and only copy in their managers. You would think he'd ask interested employees to talk to their managers first (so that they can try to convince high performers to stay) instead of making it a de facto irreversible step by involving HR immediately.
- mathattack 10y ago
  People may not have the courage to go to their boss. I certainly didn't when I was at a company that had a similar policy. (I didn't want to take advantage of it, but it was "at the manager's discretion" which meant they could block it and then you'd really be stuck)

Right -- it seemed fine until "The Offer" showed up. You know who takes offers like that? The people who can find new jobs really easily. It's a recipe for losing good people.

mathattack 10y ago

Yes. And anyone who was WIP interviewing.

ams6110 10y ago

It reads to me like the opening steps to a classic "Death March." They even talk about "busting ass" and "staying late." BTDT. I'd be out by the end of the day if I got that email.

zupa-hu 10y ago

Maybe you are statistically right, maybe I'm just the outliar, but I'd actually love getting this letter. I'd rather work late at a company fighting for its life, with a team that holds together, in a place where it actually matters if you get something done, than at a stable company that has no pressure and has tons of time getting things done. Get out of my way and let me get shit done. I'd definitely stay, let's rock! :D (I have zero connections to Zenefits.)

HillRat 10y ago
To be less generous than you, I see it as an invitation to death-march deadlines, desperate executive-level demands for unreasonable results, a likely spiral into oblivion that no operational improvements can stop, and essentially no meaningful rewards if you succeed. Last-minute large-scale payroll cuts generally means a company is in week-to-week mode. Voluntary RIF packages aren't likely to get better over time, so loyalty to the cause is really the only reason to stay as long as you're market-employable. And, no, no connections to Zenefits either, but it's not the first time I've seen this one play out. (Working with one right now, actually!)
fishtoaster 10y ago
I can definitely understand that sentiment. That's the main reason I like working at super-early-stage startups. Zenefits, though, sounds like you'd have all the rough parts of that experience (eg long hours) but little of the upside. And, because of both their size and their recent trouble with regulation, there's probably very little of the "get out of my way".
- zupa-hu 10y ago
  indeed I had my best "get out of my way" experience when working at a startup
st3v3r 10y ago
And then be fired in 2 months? There are thousands of better things you could be doing with your time. Including, if you really want to work late, working on your own company, where you'll at least get to own the benefits of working late, instead of sacrificing yourself to make someone else rich.
- zupa-hu 10y ago
  I am actually working on my own company so I can't argue here I guess. Still the letter does come off as positive to me. He sounded like he is putting the problems out in the open. Maybe I'm just young and inexperienced.
golergka 10y ago
The point is, I'm not sure Zenefits deserves people like you.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

smartician 10y ago

Especially dangerous because he's asking people to directly email HR and only copy in their managers. You would think he'd ask interested employees to talk to their managers first (so that they can try to convince high performers to stay) instead of making it a de facto irreversible step by involving HR immediately.

mathattack 10y ago
People may not have the courage to go to their boss. I certainly didn't when I was at a company that had a similar policy. (I didn't want to take advantage of it, but it was "at the manager's discretion" which meant they could block it and then you'd really be stuck)