7 ms·

Only reason I use OSX is that's what I was issued at work. I don't own an iOS device, never have, and don't see myself ever getting one in the future. All of

by fooey 10y ago

Only reason I use OSX is that's what I was issued at work. I don't own an iOS device, never have, and don't see myself ever getting one in the future. All of my personal mobile devices are Android, and all my desktops/laptops are Windows.

banach 10y ago
As someone who has used Windows, Mac and Linux as both personal and work OS for > 5 years each, I'm curious to know how come (you don't see yourself getting one in the future). The two things I have against the Apple platform compared to Microsoft and Google are Apple's bias toward lock-in and their aversion to tinkering. Other than that, I think what they are offering is rather good.
- robert_nsu 10y ago
  > aversion to tinkering That is my biggest (and really only) complaint against Apple. Sometimes you have to go under the hood and do a few things. I don't know what Apple has against this way of thinking though.
- majewsky 10y ago
  I got a Macbook Pro as work machine in late 2014, having used a Thinkpad before. 1. Mac OS is just too unfamiliar. It starts with the keyboard layout, which I reverted to Windows-style after I went crazy trying to find the square brackets. (Which, probably for aesthetics, they didn't bother to print ont he keyboard.) 2. Mac OS's poor multi-monitor support regularly drives me crazy. To their credit, they have ironed out a lot of the bugs in Mavericks, but there is still plenty of stupid behavior (e.g. screen 1 sliding back to the desktop from a fullscreen app when a new window opens on screen 2, or a messagebox from an app on screen 3 opening on screen 1, completely out of my sight). Windows is somehow much better in this regard (at least, I was not annoyed by it that often), and even Linux has very solid multi-monitor support these days (at least for me, YMMV). 3. The userland is UNIX, but does not match my expectations well enough. It's basically in the creepy valley. For example, I was using units(1) one day and wondering why it gave a syntax error when I tried to use a power operator (like "2^64"). Then I noticed that I was in the Mac terminal, not in my Linux VM (where I usually work), and upon inspecting the manpage, I found that they hadn't updated their units(1) since 1991 (wtf). 4. The company where I work is mostly a Windows shop, so corporate IT is based on Microsoft products (AD, Exchange, Lync aka Skype for Business) all the way through. While there are Office for Mac, Outlook for Mac, and Lync for Mac, these are still no match to their Windows counterparts in terms of polish and OS-level integration. All in all, I'm already set on going back to a Windows notebook when it is time to get a new machine. (It's not like my Linux VM cares which host OS it runs on, anyway.)
  - robotresearcher 10y ago
    > I went crazy trying to find the square brackets. Apple's US keyboards have them in a good place: on dedicated keys to the right of the 'p' key. Scroll down a bit here: http://www.apple.com/magic-accessories/ http://www.apple.com/magic-accessories/ Like you, I am baffled as to why some of their BSD userland programs are so very out of date.
    - jsheard 10y ago
      Apples US keyboards are fine, the problem is their international keyboards are usually bizarre hybrids of the local layout and US layout. Standard UK layout: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingdom.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingdom.svg Apple "UK" layout: http://i.imgur.com/pIGiilv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pIGiilv.jpg (@€#@|\`~ are all wrong)
      - rleigh 10y ago
        The worst part is not that they have a "unique" UK keyboard layout, but that they don't support the standard UK layout at all with the built-in keymaps, which is frankly incredible given that every single keyboard other than Apple ones uses it since it's a British Standard and that's what everyone uses and expects.
      - kayoone 10y ago
        Yup, after my first Macbook with a german layout in 2009 i only got them with US keyboards ever since.
      - chrisseaton 10y ago
        How are those UK keys 'wrong'? Do you just mean you'd chose to put them somewhere else if you were designing a keyboard?
        JdeBP 10y ago
        As has already been said here, there are British Standards covering computer keyboard layouts. There are the several parts of BS ISO/IEC 9995 (parts 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 11), there is BS 4822, and the BSI also publishes ISO/IEC 15412.

by fooey 10y ago

banach 10y ago

As someone who has used Windows, Mac and Linux as both personal and work OS for > 5 years each, I'm curious to know how come (you don't see yourself getting one in the future). The two things I have against the Apple platform compared to Microsoft and Google are Apple's bias toward lock-in and their aversion to tinkering. Other than that, I think what they are offering is rather good.

robert_nsu 10y ago
> aversion to tinkering That is my biggest (and really only) complaint against Apple. Sometimes you have to go under the hood and do a few things. I don't know what Apple has against this way of thinking though.
majewsky 10y ago
I got a Macbook Pro as work machine in late 2014, having used a Thinkpad before. 1. Mac OS is just too unfamiliar. It starts with the keyboard layout, which I reverted to Windows-style after I went crazy trying to find the square brackets. (Which, probably for aesthetics, they didn't bother to print ont he keyboard.) 2. Mac OS's poor multi-monitor support regularly drives me crazy. To their credit, they have ironed out a lot of the bugs in Mavericks, but there is still plenty of stupid behavior (e.g. screen 1 sliding back to the desktop from a fullscreen app when a new window opens on screen 2, or a messagebox from an app on screen 3 opening on screen 1, completely out of my sight). Windows is somehow much better in this regard (at least, I was not annoyed by it that often), and even Linux has very solid multi-monitor support these days (at least for me, YMMV). 3. The userland is UNIX, but does not match my expectations well enough. It's basically in the creepy valley. For example, I was using units(1) one day and wondering why it gave a syntax error when I tried to use a power operator (like "2^64"). Then I noticed that I was in the Mac terminal, not in my Linux VM (where I usually work), and upon inspecting the manpage, I found that they hadn't updated their units(1) since 1991 (wtf). 4. The company where I work is mostly a Windows shop, so corporate IT is based on Microsoft products (AD, Exchange, Lync aka Skype for Business) all the way through. While there are Office for Mac, Outlook for Mac, and Lync for Mac, these are still no match to their Windows counterparts in terms of polish and OS-level integration. All in all, I'm already set on going back to a Windows notebook when it is time to get a new machine. (It's not like my Linux VM cares which host OS it runs on, anyway.)
- robotresearcher 10y ago
  > I went crazy trying to find the square brackets. Apple's US keyboards have them in a good place: on dedicated keys to the right of the 'p' key. Scroll down a bit here: http://www.apple.com/magic-accessories/ http://www.apple.com/magic-accessories/ Like you, I am baffled as to why some of their BSD userland programs are so very out of date.
  - jsheard 10y ago
    Apples US keyboards are fine, the problem is their international keyboards are usually bizarre hybrids of the local layout and US layout. Standard UK layout: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingdom.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingdom.svg Apple "UK" layout: http://i.imgur.com/pIGiilv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pIGiilv.jpg (@€#@|\`~ are all wrong)
    - rleigh 10y ago
      The worst part is not that they have a "unique" UK keyboard layout, but that they don't support the standard UK layout at all with the built-in keymaps, which is frankly incredible given that every single keyboard other than Apple ones uses it since it's a British Standard and that's what everyone uses and expects.
    - kayoone 10y ago
      Yup, after my first Macbook with a german layout in 2009 i only got them with US keyboards ever since.
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      How are those UK keys 'wrong'? Do you just mean you'd chose to put them somewhere else if you were designing a keyboard?
      - JdeBP 10y ago
        As has already been said here, there are British Standards covering computer keyboard layouts. There are the several parts of BS ISO/IEC 9995 (parts 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 11), there is BS 4822, and the BSI also publishes ISO/IEC 15412.