4 ms·

They're purposefully misleading you. Have no shame. Consult with a lawyer, then issue them an ultimatum: wages and taxes paid, or you'll rat them out and preven

by norswap 10y ago

They're purposefully misleading you. Have no shame. Consult with a lawyer, then issue them an ultimatum: wages and taxes paid, or you'll rat them out and prevent them (via lawsuit if necessary) from using your IP. I bet they'll miraculously find money somewhere. Be sure to fix a deadline, otherwise they might just try to delay this forever. (IANAL)

emeraldd 10y ago
The Lawyer is an absolute must at this point. Given that you're now aware of what's going on, it is entirely possible that you have legal responsibilities that you are not aware of to report or otherwise act on the information.Plus a lawyer should know how to phrase this kind of things so it isn't legally extortion/blackmail. (IANAL) (fix minor phrasing error.)
- delphinius81 10y ago
  Also, if there is anything officially linking you as an officer in the company (you state you were CTO), you could be held partly liable for the tax/wage fraud if you don't report it. (IANAL) Even if that were not the case, I say report them. You'll be helping the other people in the company that you like by preventing the CEO from walking over them in the future (if the CEO would do it to another officer of the company, they would certainly do it to the rank and file). It will also set an example to other start-up founders not to screw over people they want to employ.
gwbas1c 10y ago
When I encountered clowns that ran companies like the post described, there's probably no money for back wages and taxes. My guess is that the founder is three steps out of the poor house himself (or herself.)
- nocash 10y ago
  I suspect this is the case.
  - gwbas1c 10y ago
    Well, hopefully you're young a flexible enough that you can bounce back quickly after learning a valuable lesson. A few years ago, I worked with a guy for 18 months without pay. I bounced back! In our case, we didn't try to convince other people to work for us for free. Now that I think I can read between the lines, give this guy (or gal) about a week to see the error in his ways. Make sure it is on friendly terms. For example, every day, continually engage him (or her) in discussions about the legal issues of employing other people. If he does not see the error in his ways, torpedo him so that he can't accidentally screw people over like this again. If he does see the error in his ways, you're going to have to take a personal hit yourself. Disband the company on amicable terms. If it's a good idea, and everybody owns most of the IP, you can get back together in a week or two and find a new leader.
- throwaway090909 10y ago
  It's almost certain the CEO is under major duress and has little cash. Most people are dishonest not because they like to be, but because they have their backs up against the wall. 1. Decide you are going to leave, be confident it's the right choice (it is) 2. Protect yourself, by understanding the legal implications with your own research or with a lawyer. 3. As the person in the position of power here (you are) have compassion. 4. Explain that you cannot stay, but you don't want to hurt them unnecessarily. 5.Make a plan for equity compensation, full rights to all of your work (at least for your own and further commercial use), while allowing them to use it under a license that doesn't blow up their lives. 6. Write your letter of recommendation for moving on to the next thing, and have it be clear that you finding job security is a necessary condition for things to proceed. ...Or, blow it all up, while trying to minimize the negative consequences for yourself. Which could be fair enough.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    The CEO not having any cash is no excuse for breaking the law.
  - more_corn 10y ago
    I'd like to up-vote this response harder.
  - norswap 10y ago
    > Most people are dishonest not because they like to be, but because they have their backs up against the wall. This is not my personal experience. > As the person in the position of power here (you are) have compassion. He just got robbed of months of wages. Sure, he has the hand, but he's still undeniably the victim. I'm all for compassion, and understanding but sometimes things are quite clear cut. I'm not arguing for vendetta, just reparation.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  I'd agree with you... but a really good friend of mine was in exactly this situation and that company, pretty much on the day that he left, ended up selling for big money to a competitor. So, having learned the hard way (but not the hardest way, it could have been my ass on the line instead of my friends') I would go the lawyer route, just in case.

by norswap 10y ago

emeraldd 10y ago

The Lawyer is an absolute must at this point. Given that you're now aware of what's going on, it is entirely possible that you have legal responsibilities that you are not aware of to report or otherwise act on the information.Plus a lawyer should know how to phrase this kind of things so it isn't legally extortion/blackmail. (IANAL) (fix minor phrasing error.)

delphinius81 10y ago
Also, if there is anything officially linking you as an officer in the company (you state you were CTO), you could be held partly liable for the tax/wage fraud if you don't report it. (IANAL) Even if that were not the case, I say report them. You'll be helping the other people in the company that you like by preventing the CEO from walking over them in the future (if the CEO would do it to another officer of the company, they would certainly do it to the rank and file). It will also set an example to other start-up founders not to screw over people they want to employ.

gwbas1c 10y ago

When I encountered clowns that ran companies like the post described, there's probably no money for back wages and taxes. My guess is that the founder is three steps out of the poor house himself (or herself.)

nocash 10y ago
I suspect this is the case.
- gwbas1c 10y ago
  Well, hopefully you're young a flexible enough that you can bounce back quickly after learning a valuable lesson. A few years ago, I worked with a guy for 18 months without pay. I bounced back! In our case, we didn't try to convince other people to work for us for free. Now that I think I can read between the lines, give this guy (or gal) about a week to see the error in his ways. Make sure it is on friendly terms. For example, every day, continually engage him (or her) in discussions about the legal issues of employing other people. If he does not see the error in his ways, torpedo him so that he can't accidentally screw people over like this again. If he does see the error in his ways, you're going to have to take a personal hit yourself. Disband the company on amicable terms. If it's a good idea, and everybody owns most of the IP, you can get back together in a week or two and find a new leader.
throwaway090909 10y ago
It's almost certain the CEO is under major duress and has little cash. Most people are dishonest not because they like to be, but because they have their backs up against the wall. 1. Decide you are going to leave, be confident it's the right choice (it is) 2. Protect yourself, by understanding the legal implications with your own research or with a lawyer. 3. As the person in the position of power here (you are) have compassion. 4. Explain that you cannot stay, but you don't want to hurt them unnecessarily. 5.Make a plan for equity compensation, full rights to all of your work (at least for your own and further commercial use), while allowing them to use it under a license that doesn't blow up their lives. 6. Write your letter of recommendation for moving on to the next thing, and have it be clear that you finding job security is a necessary condition for things to proceed. ...Or, blow it all up, while trying to minimize the negative consequences for yourself. Which could be fair enough.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  The CEO not having any cash is no excuse for breaking the law.
- more_corn 10y ago
  I'd like to up-vote this response harder.
- norswap 10y ago
  > Most people are dishonest not because they like to be, but because they have their backs up against the wall. This is not my personal experience. > As the person in the position of power here (you are) have compassion. He just got robbed of months of wages. Sure, he has the hand, but he's still undeniably the victim. I'm all for compassion, and understanding but sometimes things are quite clear cut. I'm not arguing for vendetta, just reparation.
jacquesm 10y ago
I'd agree with you... but a really good friend of mine was in exactly this situation and that company, pretty much on the day that he left, ended up selling for big money to a competitor. So, having learned the hard way (but not the hardest way, it could have been my ass on the line instead of my friends') I would go the lawyer route, just in case.