4 ms·

Just because one team on Windows 10 made a huge mistake doesn't mean the entirety of Microsoft is full of people looking to fill the world with dark patterns. T

Just because one team on Windows 10 made a huge mistake doesn't mean the entirety of Microsoft is full of people looking to fill the world with dark patterns. They employ about 50,000 engineers last time I checked...

cm2187 10y ago
I don't think it was a "mistake" by an isolated team. I don't think the Windows team would change that fundamentally Microsoft's core product without the management's OK.
- simonswords82 10y ago
  I agree that a manager somewhere in the organisation did OK this change but that's one person. I don't believe he or she is representative of the hundred thousand people that Microsoft employ.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    I'd expect the aggressive data gathering and windows 10 upgrade practice to have been OK-ed at Microsoft's ExCo.
  - c_c_c 10y ago
    What makes you say that? Why do you think this is rogue employee behavior?
- rhizome 10y ago
  I'm having trouble parsing the concept of an "isolated team" at a company like Microsoft, especially where a major OS revision is involved.
stevekemp 10y ago
You could say something very similar about LinkedIn itself, albeit on a slightly smaller scale.
Sylos 10y ago
If this would have been a mistake, the executives at Microsoft would have heard of it by now, no matter how disconnected they are from the world, and then they would have reverted it. Which they didn't.
- simonswords82 10y ago
  Have you any idea how difficult it is to revert something like that? It doesn't sound like a trivial Cmd + Z to me. It sounds like a lot of work with limited upside for the team that implemented it. Nobody likes undoing their own work... Anyway, I'm not saying it wasn't a dick move by Microsoft. I just don't think it's representative of their entire company.
  - pbarnes_1 10y ago
    It's pretty trivial: turn off the push messaging that makes it auto-update. The forced updates definitely got CEO approval. No question.
    - lagadu 10y ago
      I suspect you're wildly overestimating how much direct involvement the CEO of a medium or large company has on product development. Obviously this can depend strongly on each company's culture (Apple is one of the most extreme examples of CEO involvement) but very often CEOs are glorified managers, involved mostly in dealing with the strategic side of things, and that kind of decisions only reach the head of R&D or CTO at most. This has been my experience from working in medium and large companies for the past decade at least.
CamperBob2 10y ago
A barrel of apples rots from the top down. No, wait, that's a fish. Either way, their Windows 10 deployment strategy stinks.

cm2187 10y ago

I don't think it was a "mistake" by an isolated team. I don't think the Windows team would change that fundamentally Microsoft's core product without the management's OK.

simonswords82 10y ago
I agree that a manager somewhere in the organisation did OK this change but that's one person. I don't believe he or she is representative of the hundred thousand people that Microsoft employ.
- cm2187 10y ago
  I'd expect the aggressive data gathering and windows 10 upgrade practice to have been OK-ed at Microsoft's ExCo.
- c_c_c 10y ago
  What makes you say that? Why do you think this is rogue employee behavior?
rhizome 10y ago
I'm having trouble parsing the concept of an "isolated team" at a company like Microsoft, especially where a major OS revision is involved.

stevekemp 10y ago

You could say something very similar about LinkedIn itself, albeit on a slightly smaller scale.

Sylos 10y ago

If this would have been a mistake, the executives at Microsoft would have heard of it by now, no matter how disconnected they are from the world, and then they would have reverted it. Which they didn't.

simonswords82 10y ago
Have you any idea how difficult it is to revert something like that? It doesn't sound like a trivial Cmd + Z to me. It sounds like a lot of work with limited upside for the team that implemented it. Nobody likes undoing their own work... Anyway, I'm not saying it wasn't a dick move by Microsoft. I just don't think it's representative of their entire company.
- pbarnes_1 10y ago
  It's pretty trivial: turn off the push messaging that makes it auto-update. The forced updates definitely got CEO approval. No question.
  - lagadu 10y ago
    I suspect you're wildly overestimating how much direct involvement the CEO of a medium or large company has on product development. Obviously this can depend strongly on each company's culture (Apple is one of the most extreme examples of CEO involvement) but very often CEOs are glorified managers, involved mostly in dealing with the strategic side of things, and that kind of decisions only reach the head of R&D or CTO at most. This has been my experience from working in medium and large companies for the past decade at least.

CamperBob2 10y ago

A barrel of apples rots from the top down. No, wait, that's a fish. Either way, their Windows 10 deployment strategy stinks.