6 ms·

Fidel Castro retires

47 points by hollywoodcole 19y ago

davidw 19y ago
Important world news, which is why it's on cnn.com and pretty much every other news site out there. Pretty much irrelevant to hackers.
- hollywoodcole 19y ago
  If it matters than it isn't irrelevant. No one is forcing you to vote for it.
  - davidw 19y ago
    The set of things that matter, in world terms, far more than what Paul Graham thinks of trolls, or startup school, or memcached is large enough that it could easily crowd out the 'hacker news' without breaking a sweat, as this page suggests: http://www.ft.com/world http://www.ft.com/world I don't see what the problem is with taking this kind of story elsewhere. It's not a bad story or uninteresting, just that first this one...then a Musharraf one, then another one about the US primaries, and on and on. All of them more important than the regular fare here. And after a while, the value of the site is diluted in terms of its original purpose.
    - hollywoodcole 19y ago
      Come on David don't be so negative. Just because it might have happen on another site doesn't mean it will happen here. Like I said before, I can't vote the article up to the frontpage, takes more than one person.
      - pg 19y ago
        He's right to worry. I worry too. And in fact our abuse detection code is suspicious about this story, because so many of the first upvotes were from newly created accounts.
        hollywoodcole 19y ago
        back to coding for you then!
      - davidw 19y ago
        Hey, don't take it personally, I would have made the same comments whoever posted the story, and you're right that you only submitted it, it also took a bunch of people to upvote it. No one here but pg can really force anyone to do anything, so I'm just asking, and trying to explain why. (BTW, even though I disagree with you, I upvoted you because a 0 or a -1 is more than enough to indicate disapproval).
        hollywoodcole 19y ago
        I understand where you are coming from. not taking it personally or to offend you, just thought it was an article that should be mentioned.
      - kingnothing 19y ago
        HN has a different news focus than other sites, and we're trying to protect its identity by saying that certain topics, while important, should not be discussed here. In short, we're trying to prevent the reddit effect.
- mk 19y ago
  Maybe it is time for a downvote button.
  - boredguy8 19y ago
    Just make sure stories can't go below 1, imho.
- michael_nielsen 19y ago
  I voted this story up. The question I try to answer in deciding whether to upvote a story is this: is the story important to hackers? Castro retiring is a major event. It's not on a par with the fall of the Berlin Wall, say, but it's more important than nearly everything that's gone on in the US Primaries, to pick an example. My guess is that it's more interesting to most hackers than the unoriginal me-too lists of "Top ten mistakes startups make" that still regularly populate Hacker News.
  - davidw 19y ago
    Ok, but by that same standard, the following stories are important too: - Vote in Pakistan. They've got nukes... - Kosovo independence has important repercussions in Europe and elsewhere. - A big tax scandal in Germany, one of the world's most important economies. - Obama just announced some kind of protectionist tax plan to 'keep jobs in America'. just to grab a few...
    - michael_nielsen 19y ago
      I think we have different standards. In 10 years, will anyone remember any of these? Only Castro and Kosovo might qualify. I certainly wouldn't even considering upvoting any of the rest. They're ephemera, and I agree with you that they're not of great interest to hackers.
      - davidw 19y ago
        They're all more important than the '10 things every startup should know' link in the grand scheme of things. The other problem is that it doesn't pass the "make me smarter or inform me of something I didn't know" test. It's a piece of information I already knew, as did anyone else that is in any way connected to TV, radio or other news sites.
        michael_nielsen 19y ago
        The test I'm applying is not whether the stories are more important in the grand scheme of things. I completely agree with you - that test is not the right test to apply. The right test, in my opinion, is how interesting a story is to hackers. And on that criterion, my original judgement was that the news of Castro's resignation merits an upvote. With that said, your point about how widely distributed a story is elsewhere is an interesting one. I'm not sure I completely agree - the Microsoft offer to buy Yahoo wouldn't have made it onto Hacker News under this criterion, for example. Part of the reason for wanting stories like this to appear on Hacker News isn't so much to be informed of the existence of the story, but rather for the quality of the discussion provoked by the stories. There are certain commenters whose opinion of Castro's resignation I'd far rather hear than some talking head on CNN.
- andreyf 19y ago
  Haha, saw that comment coming a mile away! :)
- brent 19y ago
  Hackers are generally interested in the world around them, particularly things related to freedom (personal, intellectual, or otherwise). It doesn't get much bigger than this. How could this possibly be irrelevant? If its irrelevant to you, you must live in a bubble.
  - davidw 19y ago
    With that as an out, you can basically say that anything goes. I guess 'irrelevant' wasn't the best word. Let's say that I don't think it ought to be here, for the reasons outlined in the other comments.
- kajecounterhack 19y ago
  Whats relevant to the world is still relevant to us hackers. We might be a special population interested in something like MSFT's bids on Yahoo, but we're just as interested, (as you can see by this upvoted thread) in the happenings of the "real" world outside of our digital cages.
mdemare 19y ago
This is indeed big news. He's been in charge for almost half a century. Now what? Will his brother manage to keep control? Considering his age everybody must be plotting to take over the reins. Slow reforms or another revolution? The Economist has more background: http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10715023&top_story=1 http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_i...
simplegeek 19y ago
This is just so boring, I (and I guess others too) don't give a flip if he's retiring or whatever! There is no point in posting this to HN, everyone knows that the we don't like such stories here. Hence, the debate is futile.
thaumaturgy 19y ago
Ah, I see that PG's advertisement for news.yc has worked, and Reddit has come for a visit.
huherto 19y ago
I think it is sad that we are discussing weather or not the story should be in HN. I would rather like to see a smart discussion on the actual event from all the smart people here. For starters: what is going to happen to cuba now? Should the embargo end?
- mariorz 19y ago
  The embargo should have never existed.
- hugh 19y ago
  I can't see that it should end immediately -- the conditions under which it was started are still in place. However, it's probably a good opportunity to start negotiations with whoever takes over -- a gradual lifting of the embargo in exchange for democratic reforms, release of political prisoners, a timetable for free elections etc.
  - mariorz 19y ago
    The conditions didn't change (ergo the embargo failed in it's intent) only causing more economic problems for the people you claim to be trying to save, and you want to keep it up?
    - hugh 19y ago
      No, I want to see it lifted, in exchange for democratic reforms. Whether or not it was a good idea in the first place, it's in place now, so lifting it is one of the few carrots which the US can offer the Cuban regime. It seems silly to give up that carrot without extracting some sort of concession, particularly as the post-Fidel government may be more amenable to compromise. If the US were to unilaterally lift the embargo without any movement by the Cuban government then it's not clear whether that would accelerate or decelerate the cause of human rights. However, making a deal has got to at least be worth a try, assuming our goal is a Cuba where people can speak freely, travel freely, own property, vote in freely contested elections, use the internet, and start businesses (to bring the topic back round to something marginally relevant to HN).
lsmith 19y ago
Whether it's interesting in its own right or not is not the issue. The subject matter is of a political nature, and doesn't really afffect or concern the technical community moreso than any other demographic group. Shouldn't this sort of thing be left to mainstream sites? In any event, most readers proably check other news sites, so this just seems redundant.
ayc 19y ago
Don't forget to notify, when Bush retire :)

47 points by hollywoodcole 19y ago

Important world news, which is why it's on cnn.com and pretty much every other news site out there. Pretty much irrelevant to hackers.

hollywoodcole 19y ago
If it matters than it isn't irrelevant. No one is forcing you to vote for it.
- davidw 19y ago
  The set of things that matter, in world terms, far more than what Paul Graham thinks of trolls, or startup school, or memcached is large enough that it could easily crowd out the 'hacker news' without breaking a sweat, as this page suggests: http://www.ft.com/world http://www.ft.com/world I don't see what the problem is with taking this kind of story elsewhere. It's not a bad story or uninteresting, just that first this one...then a Musharraf one, then another one about the US primaries, and on and on. All of them more important than the regular fare here. And after a while, the value of the site is diluted in terms of its original purpose.
  - hollywoodcole 19y ago
    Come on David don't be so negative. Just because it might have happen on another site doesn't mean it will happen here. Like I said before, I can't vote the article up to the frontpage, takes more than one person.
    - pg 19y ago
      He's right to worry. I worry too. And in fact our abuse detection code is suspicious about this story, because so many of the first upvotes were from newly created accounts.
      - hollywoodcole 19y ago
        back to coding for you then!
    - davidw 19y ago
      Hey, don't take it personally, I would have made the same comments whoever posted the story, and you're right that you only submitted it, it also took a bunch of people to upvote it. No one here but pg can really force anyone to do anything, so I'm just asking, and trying to explain why. (BTW, even though I disagree with you, I upvoted you because a 0 or a -1 is more than enough to indicate disapproval).
      - hollywoodcole 19y ago
        I understand where you are coming from. not taking it personally or to offend you, just thought it was an article that should be mentioned.
    - kingnothing 19y ago
      HN has a different news focus than other sites, and we're trying to protect its identity by saying that certain topics, while important, should not be discussed here. In short, we're trying to prevent the reddit effect.
mk 19y ago
Maybe it is time for a downvote button.
- boredguy8 19y ago
  Just make sure stories can't go below 1, imho.
michael_nielsen 19y ago
I voted this story up. The question I try to answer in deciding whether to upvote a story is this: is the story important to hackers? Castro retiring is a major event. It's not on a par with the fall of the Berlin Wall, say, but it's more important than nearly everything that's gone on in the US Primaries, to pick an example. My guess is that it's more interesting to most hackers than the unoriginal me-too lists of "Top ten mistakes startups make" that still regularly populate Hacker News.
- davidw 19y ago
  Ok, but by that same standard, the following stories are important too: - Vote in Pakistan. They've got nukes... - Kosovo independence has important repercussions in Europe and elsewhere. - A big tax scandal in Germany, one of the world's most important economies. - Obama just announced some kind of protectionist tax plan to 'keep jobs in America'. just to grab a few...
  - michael_nielsen 19y ago
    I think we have different standards. In 10 years, will anyone remember any of these? Only Castro and Kosovo might qualify. I certainly wouldn't even considering upvoting any of the rest. They're ephemera, and I agree with you that they're not of great interest to hackers.
    - davidw 19y ago
      They're all more important than the '10 things every startup should know' link in the grand scheme of things. The other problem is that it doesn't pass the "make me smarter or inform me of something I didn't know" test. It's a piece of information I already knew, as did anyone else that is in any way connected to TV, radio or other news sites.
      - michael_nielsen 19y ago
        The test I'm applying is not whether the stories are more important in the grand scheme of things. I completely agree with you - that test is not the right test to apply. The right test, in my opinion, is how interesting a story is to hackers. And on that criterion, my original judgement was that the news of Castro's resignation merits an upvote. With that said, your point about how widely distributed a story is elsewhere is an interesting one. I'm not sure I completely agree - the Microsoft offer to buy Yahoo wouldn't have made it onto Hacker News under this criterion, for example. Part of the reason for wanting stories like this to appear on Hacker News isn't so much to be informed of the existence of the story, but rather for the quality of the discussion provoked by the stories. There are certain commenters whose opinion of Castro's resignation I'd far rather hear than some talking head on CNN.
andreyf 19y ago
Haha, saw that comment coming a mile away! :)
brent 19y ago
Hackers are generally interested in the world around them, particularly things related to freedom (personal, intellectual, or otherwise). It doesn't get much bigger than this. How could this possibly be irrelevant? If its irrelevant to you, you must live in a bubble.
- davidw 19y ago
  With that as an out, you can basically say that anything goes. I guess 'irrelevant' wasn't the best word. Let's say that I don't think it ought to be here, for the reasons outlined in the other comments.
kajecounterhack 19y ago
Whats relevant to the world is still relevant to us hackers. We might be a special population interested in something like MSFT's bids on Yahoo, but we're just as interested, (as you can see by this upvoted thread) in the happenings of the "real" world outside of our digital cages.

mdemare 19y ago

This is indeed big news. He's been in charge for almost half a century. Now what? Will his brother manage to keep control? Considering his age everybody must be plotting to take over the reins. Slow reforms or another revolution? The Economist has more background: http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10715023&top_story=1 http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_i...

simplegeek 19y ago

This is just so boring, I (and I guess others too) don't give a flip if he's retiring or whatever! There is no point in posting this to HN, everyone knows that the we don't like such stories here. Hence, the debate is futile.

thaumaturgy 19y ago

Ah, I see that PG's advertisement for news.yc has worked, and Reddit has come for a visit.

huherto 19y ago

I think it is sad that we are discussing weather or not the story should be in HN. I would rather like to see a smart discussion on the actual event from all the smart people here. For starters: what is going to happen to cuba now? Should the embargo end?

mariorz 19y ago
The embargo should have never existed.
hugh 19y ago
I can't see that it should end immediately -- the conditions under which it was started are still in place. However, it's probably a good opportunity to start negotiations with whoever takes over -- a gradual lifting of the embargo in exchange for democratic reforms, release of political prisoners, a timetable for free elections etc.
- mariorz 19y ago
  The conditions didn't change (ergo the embargo failed in it's intent) only causing more economic problems for the people you claim to be trying to save, and you want to keep it up?
  - hugh 19y ago
    No, I want to see it lifted, in exchange for democratic reforms. Whether or not it was a good idea in the first place, it's in place now, so lifting it is one of the few carrots which the US can offer the Cuban regime. It seems silly to give up that carrot without extracting some sort of concession, particularly as the post-Fidel government may be more amenable to compromise. If the US were to unilaterally lift the embargo without any movement by the Cuban government then it's not clear whether that would accelerate or decelerate the cause of human rights. However, making a deal has got to at least be worth a try, assuming our goal is a Cuba where people can speak freely, travel freely, own property, vote in freely contested elections, use the internet, and start businesses (to bring the topic back round to something marginally relevant to HN).

lsmith 19y ago

Whether it's interesting in its own right or not is not the issue. The subject matter is of a political nature, and doesn't really afffect or concern the technical community moreso than any other demographic group. Shouldn't this sort of thing be left to mainstream sites? In any event, most readers proably check other news sites, so this just seems redundant.

ayc 19y ago

Don't forget to notify, when Bush retire :)