7 ms·

How to Win Friends and Influence People Summarized

164 points by blackswan 17y ago

T_S_ 17y ago
I think these ideas are probably true in every era and culture, blackswan, being based on universal truths about human nature. Applying them mechanically I am sure you will agree is a terrific idea. Don't you? Thanks for the post blackswan. Each of your posts is better than the last. Even the ones I didn't understand why you posted, blackswan, not being of such a high caliber as yourself. I have modded you up blackswan. Keep up the fine work, blackswan. Now I must be off to my Toastmasters meeting.
mcav 17y ago
Good summary, though reading the actual book may make it easier to internalize those principles. I figure that's similar to the 10,000-hour rule for becoming an expert in a field: the more time you spend internalizing something, the more likely you'll actually use what you just read.
- petercooper 17y ago
  That's true, but summaries like these are very useful in two cases: 1) People who've already read the book (like me). Keeping big books around is a waste of space, but a list like this can bring the content of the book flooding back. 2) People who aren't going to buy the book or think it sounds lame, but who could be convinced by getting a taste of what it offers. I'd certainly advise reading the book, but I think there's still a ton of value in summaries like this.
wisty 17y ago
I'm not a big fan of HTWFAIP. It's basically "don't be a jerk". A lot of geeks are good at that already, and could actually afford to be a bit more of a jerk.
- kunqiana 17y ago
  This is the problem, most people don't even know if they are being a jerk or not. I thought I had good social skills until I read HTWFAIP. It made me realize how socially inept I was. Turns out the main message in most social intelligence books is the emphasis of empathy; it is actually a hard skill to learn and one that's usually underestimated by the majority of people especially geeks.
  - gcheong 17y ago
    Steve Blank had an interesting post about this: http://steveblank.com/2010/02/08/emulating-empathy/ http://steveblank.com/2010/02/08/emulating-empathy/
  - wisty 17y ago
    Empathy - often poorly defined. Do you mean empathy - you "put yourself in other people's shoes" (i.e. you are not a psychopath), or the ability to read people? People with lots of empathy who can't "read people" come across as ... awkward. Or dorky. Yeah ... the word is "dorky". Kinda like Simon Tan.
- petercooper 17y ago
  Attached to that, though, is that there are different levels of "jerkness." Most of us could do with being more jerk-like when it comes to defending or promoting our own interests and ideas, but we need far fewer jerks who try to mess up other people's lives. Sadly, they all seem to get lumped in under the same term..
Ernestas 17y ago
I recommend to read the book. Without reading it is hard to understand the principles behind it. Book shows practical examples throughout and explains how other person feels when each principle is applied.
xsmasher 17y ago
The title of this book always put me off - but I eventually picked it up and I'm glad I did. It is not a book about how to be a jerk. The content is excellent, despite the cheesy/manipulative sounding title. Available in audiobook too.
zupatol 17y ago
The book is a classic, its advice looks sensible, but I always found the title dreadfully cynical. Having a friend is something else than knowing someone you can influence. It seems to me that finding real friends is much harder than applying this sensible, but limited advice.
- kelnos 17y ago
  As someone above hinted at, I think the title is more a product of the times. When the book was written, "influence people" probably meant more like what "be influential" or "be a trusted source" means today.
nzmsv 17y ago
The only thing I am not sure about in this book is the whole "a person's name is the sweetest sound" thing. It is hard to use this piece of advice correctly, and more often than not comes across as " I just read Carnegie's book the other night". When I hear my name being used just for the sake of throwing it in a sentence, I make a mental check of whether I am being manipulated, and this is pretty much the only effect.
- neilk 17y ago
  Well, NZMSV, I think we all could agree that we don't like being manipulated. But as someone who is more self-aware and perceptive than most, NZMSV, wouldn't you agree that the name trick is just a component of what people really want: recognition. The point is to very quickly pick up on the story they tell about themselves, and play it back to them.
- groaner 17y ago
  At the risk of referring to that other site, you're not the only one that's uncomfortable: http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/b525v/dae_hate_saying_their_own_name/ http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/b525v/dae_h...
- scotty79 17y ago
  Same thing with me. If I hear that someone except from my closest friends utters my name while speaking directly to me, all my alarm bells start ringing. It's stupid, because I know what my name is and people who did that in the past tend to turn out to be malicious.
  - baby 17y ago
    I think it really depends of the person speaking to you. If he's talking to you with a superior voice, yes I would feel manipulated. But someone saying it with a smile and genuinely would make me feel happy
    - scotty79 17y ago
      Nope. People who screwed me over in the past were smiling and saying my name with very pleasant and respectful voice with intention to genuinely make me happy. On the other hand my friends use my name only when they talk with each other about me in my presence or when they call me to get my attention.
joshu 17y ago
I've always wanted to build a site that does a tl;dr of advice books, since it always feels like a few simple things plus a boatload of stories and blah blah etc.
- davidw 17y ago
  If you want a piece of http://www.squeezedbooks.com http://www.squeezedbooks.com , you're welcome to it. I'd love to hear your ideas about making it better. Phillip Greenspun puts it rather nicely on a review of "Crossing the Chasm": "This book illustrates a fault in the publishing industry. If you have a 50-page idea it is too long for a magazine. But it is too short for a book. So if you wanted to get it distributed before the Web came along, you had to drop in words until you reached 200 pages."
- vl 17y ago
  Ironically, I feel that Getting Things Done (of all things :) needs this treatment more than many other books. I think GTD ideas would be much better digestible in form of concise 30-50 page article as opposed to the tedious and inflated read the actual book is.
- scorpioxy 17y ago
  But that takes the fun out of reading the books. Plus, the advice in the Carnegie book are well known. As in, they're pretty obvious. But i think the way he tells the story to emphasize his point is what makes the book such a classic. I too resisted reading it for a long time because of the silly title and because I don't like reading "advice" books. But i broke down a few years ago and actually read it and it was a good read.
covercash 17y ago
I just listened to the audiobook and jotted down very similar notes on my whiteboard. Thanks for sharing!
aneth 17y ago
This book is filled with great anecdotes and effective strategies. I've used a lot of them, however there are some downsides. 1) By constantly making people feel good about themselves, you create a sense of entitlement and pride which can be very difficult to work with when you need them to stand down. There is a reason they tear you down before they build you up in boot camp. 2) People who religiously practice this style of communication can seem annoying and manipulative, even if they are successful and popular. When I've followed the advice in this book completely, I've ended up feeling more popular but also more alone. I've found a sprinkled dose reality check can be a good thing for all involved, particularly those you care most about.
- petercooper 17y ago
  I've ended up feeling more popular but also more alone. Anecdotally, it seems to me that, on average, the most successful members of our society are lonelier than the average - celebrities go on about it a lot. Luckily, people are motivated by different things. Many people are glad to be financially poor but well loved in their communities. Others prefer the alternative. None of this is good or bad unless it feels so to you. Was becoming more popular but distanced good to you? If not, I can certainly see why you might want to tone down the charm :-)
  - aneth 17y ago
    I'm much happier with real mutually respectful relationships - the kind you can't establish by acting like a politician. I find every time I play these flattery games with long term relationships, it keeps things rolling, but leaves a deep division. This book is great for people who want to establish a network or run for office. It also provides food for thought in more personal relationships, but it's dangerous to act this way to real friends.
algorias 17y ago
There's only one way to make people like you, actually, or am I misreading that sentence? ;)
davidcuddeback 17y ago
Much of the advice in this book can be explained by people wanting to feel important. Doing anything that makes people feel less important (criticizing, arguing, saying "you're wrong") doesn't help your situation. Doing anything that makes people feel more important (give sincere appreciation, remember a person's name, let others talk about themselves) likely will help your situation. I still recommend reading this book. You'll get a lot more out of it than you will from summaries, because the book contains real-life examples that clarify what each principle means and how it can be applied. If you're put off by the title, remember that it was written in 1936. "Influence people," sounds very manipulative today, but in the book it simply means "to be an influential person." I think that's an important distinction to make, because the latter is more relationship-oriented than the former.
csallen 17y ago
I find it depressing that the best way to get on someone's good side is a combination of gratuitous flattery and ignoring their faults. Have you ever noticed how much of our language is devoted to simply not offending people?
- davidcuddeback 17y ago
  I disagree. I think flattery backfires, because most people can detect it. Flattery is what comes out of your mouth if your thoughts are not genuine. Dale Carnegie doesn't promote ignoring people's faults. His book is about how to work around or correct people's faults without insulting them.
- kyro 17y ago
  If you read the book, it specifically tells you to not resort to gratuitous flattery and instead give genuine, meaningful, and honest praise. The book also suggests you to point out people's faults in a more indirect and encouraging manner, so as to incite a desire to improve rather than a doubt of one's abilities.
phugoid 17y ago
Think of... - a few real people you like, and would like to know better - the most convincing people you know - the best leader you ever followed How do those people fare alongside Carnegie's recipes for success? In my case, I'd say "not too well".
njl 17y ago
If you do want to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", try to get an older version of it. It has been rewritten over and over by Carnegie's successors, with more "relevant" but less interesting anecdotes. The original is filled with fun anecdotes about turn-of-the-century robber barons. Good stuff.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
doron 17y ago
"Lie, Cheat, Steal, and listen to heavy metal music." or was that something else?
zavulon 17y ago
I used to be a big fan of this book, but every time I tried applying the principles, I only did it in the 1-2 "insipired" weeks, right after reading or re-reading the book. Then, as time passed, I gradually shifted into my old habits. I used to blame my weak willpower for a while for that - but now I think the problem could be with the book itself. I feel the problem is that this book focuses too much on the 'outside', the presentation layer, instead of the 'inside'. It's how to act like you're a successful, popular person with lots of friends, even if you're far from it on the inside. Of course, many have noted that acting "as if" will eventually turn you into that person, I think that's true only if you actively focus on that goal. The book does not. It only occasionally pays lip service to "inner character" (ten pages about smiling a lot... and in the end "oh by the way, you actually have to be nice for this to work"). Having said that, I still think it's a very good book for many geeks who have no idea about social norms at all, to provide as sort of tutorial on this topic.
- aneth 17y ago
  Sounds like you had a similar experience to mine. The book has powerful concepts but is dangerous for the soul.
bh23ha 17y ago
Don't criticize, condemn or complain. Certainly don't condemn, that's just being a dick. Be careful about criticising, will that really and I mean really help? Complain? Trying to stay positive is good for your mental health. Never complaining, not so much. Completely hiding your feelings is bad for one of the most important things in life: Making a true and honest connection with other people. Give honest and sincere appreciation. Or to put in a more general way, seek honesty and communication. Arouse in the other person an eager want. Aha! This must be the secret to influencing, but.. uhm... how do you do that exactly? Become genuinely interested in other people. Sure, again seek genuinely human connections, that's a good thing. Smile. :) Remember that a person's name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language. Not for me, you can call me anything as long as you're good to me. A great old guy completely screwed up my name once, to the point of calling me a completely different name. By the time I realized he was NOT talking to someone else, it was in front of company and I didn't want to embarrass the old man. He kept calling a name which was 100% not my name, but he was a great guy! I like that guy a lot. So yeah, what ever. It's not about the name, it's about showing you care about someone, the name's just a small part of that. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. In other words, interrupting people is rude, and talking too much is also kind of a dick move. Talk in terms of the other person's interests. Communicating with others is honestly hard, it really is. One "trick" you can use is try and frame things in a way the other person can understand, use metaphors invoking things they like etc. As you communicate with someone the understanding between you and them will grow and you can communicate more with less effort. Make the other person feel important - and do it sincerely. Oh I bet that's another secret, and how do you exactly and sincerely make people feel important? All I can guess is listening and communicating without treating them a like an inferior. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. Sure don't be that guy that looooves arguments. Unless you're having dinner with Brits, arguments are just damn good fun, it's bad if you can't hold your own! And some, in fact often the most important arguments can NOT be avoided. In fact, a pathological avoidance of arguments will in the long term NOT make you popular. The above rule can be put more simply as: "Don't be a dick." Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say, "You're wrong" Don't be a dick. If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically. Be honest, communicate, don't be afraid of failure or embarrassment. Begin in a friendly way. Don't be a dick. Get the other person saying "yes, yes" immediately. And how do you do that exactly? Do you open with: Is the sun bright or what? Let the other person do a great deal of the talking. Don't be a dick. Let the other person feel that the idea is his or hers. Or maybe you should seek agreement, and try and make them see things your way and tell them how their way of thinking inspired yours, and don't be a manipulative sociopath. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view. Don't be a dick. Be honest, communicate... I feel like I'm repeating myself. Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires. I am repeating myself. Appeal to the nobler motives. Yes appeal to things which are good and legal, not damaging and/or illegal things. Dramatize your ideas. Communicating with other is really hard. You can't just dump a succinct thought in your head and expect everyone else to get it. Throw down a challenge. Or offer something that's fun. Just don't bring people down and don't be a dick. Begin with praise and honest appreciation. Positivity, honest communication, etc. Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly. Don't be a dick, but do be honest and sincere. Don't be an obtuse prick, people do appreciate honest communication. Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person. Don't be a dick. Ask questions instead of giving direct orders. Use the Socratic method of teaching. If you can that is. That shit ain't easy! Let the other person save face. Don't be a dick, and try not to embarrass people. Praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement. Be "hearty in your approbation and lavish in your praise. You might not want to "make it rain" with cash, but verbal recognition cost you nothing so the ROI is like infinite. Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to. Yes, when most people think you don't think much of them, they'll meet your expectations. Use encouragement. Didn't we just talk about that? Make the fault seem easy to correct. Don't be a dick, be honest but positive and don't embarrass people. Make the other person happy about doing the thing you suggest. The best you can do is invest a lot of effort into honest communication and making the other person feel respected and that you think of them highly. And then try to tell them why what you suggest is important to you and try to communicate your ideas as best as you can, dramatically, with things they are interested in, etc. And if that's not enough, you're screwed. But maybe they'll still do it. Just don't be a dick or a sociopath. Now recently I by accident (pointless small talk before a meeting) found out my manager and I share a common interest. We've been talking about it often because we enjoy talking about it. And recently I also mentioned I wished one of the projects I'm on had him as a manager, but I was also happy he was happy not be part of that cluster fuck. Yet I've never red "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and I haven't seen this website before today. All I try to do is: 1. Not be a dick. 2. Be honest. 3. Be positive. 3. Avoid fear, embarrassment, false pride, etc.
gyom 17y ago
I read Dale Carnegie's book 4-5 times over because I enjoyed reading it. It really backfired on me one time, though. I was staying in a hostel and some guy was angry at me (it's not important why). I decided to go for the "take the blame, and agree that it's your fault to disarm your opponent who expected a fight". The angry guy really felt like I was patronizing and I didn't give a shit about him, which just made him more angry. Oops. I was convinced that my Carnegie verbal kung fu was better than that. I made note and next time I'll argue briefly before conceding and moving on. I also agree with someone in this thread who said that it's annoying when you suspect that these techniques are being used on you. I have a friend who reads those kinds of books and I regularly wonder if he is being genuine when he asks my opinion about something.

164 points by blackswan 17y ago

T_S_ 17y ago

I think these ideas are probably true in every era and culture, blackswan, being based on universal truths about human nature. Applying them mechanically I am sure you will agree is a terrific idea. Don't you? Thanks for the post blackswan. Each of your posts is better than the last. Even the ones I didn't understand why you posted, blackswan, not being of such a high caliber as yourself. I have modded you up blackswan. Keep up the fine work, blackswan. Now I must be off to my Toastmasters meeting.

mcav 17y ago

Good summary, though reading the actual book may make it easier to internalize those principles. I figure that's similar to the 10,000-hour rule for becoming an expert in a field: the more time you spend internalizing something, the more likely you'll actually use what you just read.

petercooper 17y ago
That's true, but summaries like these are very useful in two cases: 1) People who've already read the book (like me). Keeping big books around is a waste of space, but a list like this can bring the content of the book flooding back. 2) People who aren't going to buy the book or think it sounds lame, but who could be convinced by getting a taste of what it offers. I'd certainly advise reading the book, but I think there's still a ton of value in summaries like this.

wisty 17y ago

I'm not a big fan of HTWFAIP. It's basically "don't be a jerk". A lot of geeks are good at that already, and could actually afford to be a bit more of a jerk.

kunqiana 17y ago
This is the problem, most people don't even know if they are being a jerk or not. I thought I had good social skills until I read HTWFAIP. It made me realize how socially inept I was. Turns out the main message in most social intelligence books is the emphasis of empathy; it is actually a hard skill to learn and one that's usually underestimated by the majority of people especially geeks.
- gcheong 17y ago
  Steve Blank had an interesting post about this: http://steveblank.com/2010/02/08/emulating-empathy/ http://steveblank.com/2010/02/08/emulating-empathy/
- wisty 17y ago
  Empathy - often poorly defined. Do you mean empathy - you "put yourself in other people's shoes" (i.e. you are not a psychopath), or the ability to read people? People with lots of empathy who can't "read people" come across as ... awkward. Or dorky. Yeah ... the word is "dorky". Kinda like Simon Tan.
petercooper 17y ago
Attached to that, though, is that there are different levels of "jerkness." Most of us could do with being more jerk-like when it comes to defending or promoting our own interests and ideas, but we need far fewer jerks who try to mess up other people's lives. Sadly, they all seem to get lumped in under the same term..

Ernestas 17y ago

I recommend to read the book. Without reading it is hard to understand the principles behind it. Book shows practical examples throughout and explains how other person feels when each principle is applied.

xsmasher 17y ago

The title of this book always put me off - but I eventually picked it up and I'm glad I did. It is not a book about how to be a jerk. The content is excellent, despite the cheesy/manipulative sounding title. Available in audiobook too.

zupatol 17y ago

The book is a classic, its advice looks sensible, but I always found the title dreadfully cynical. Having a friend is something else than knowing someone you can influence. It seems to me that finding real friends is much harder than applying this sensible, but limited advice.

kelnos 17y ago
As someone above hinted at, I think the title is more a product of the times. When the book was written, "influence people" probably meant more like what "be influential" or "be a trusted source" means today.

nzmsv 17y ago

The only thing I am not sure about in this book is the whole "a person's name is the sweetest sound" thing. It is hard to use this piece of advice correctly, and more often than not comes across as " I just read Carnegie's book the other night". When I hear my name being used just for the sake of throwing it in a sentence, I make a mental check of whether I am being manipulated, and this is pretty much the only effect.

neilk 17y ago
Well, NZMSV, I think we all could agree that we don't like being manipulated. But as someone who is more self-aware and perceptive than most, NZMSV, wouldn't you agree that the name trick is just a component of what people really want: recognition. The point is to very quickly pick up on the story they tell about themselves, and play it back to them.
groaner 17y ago
At the risk of referring to that other site, you're not the only one that's uncomfortable: http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/b525v/dae_hate_saying_their_own_name/ http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/b525v/dae_h...
scotty79 17y ago
Same thing with me. If I hear that someone except from my closest friends utters my name while speaking directly to me, all my alarm bells start ringing. It's stupid, because I know what my name is and people who did that in the past tend to turn out to be malicious.
- baby 17y ago
  I think it really depends of the person speaking to you. If he's talking to you with a superior voice, yes I would feel manipulated. But someone saying it with a smile and genuinely would make me feel happy
  - scotty79 17y ago
    Nope. People who screwed me over in the past were smiling and saying my name with very pleasant and respectful voice with intention to genuinely make me happy. On the other hand my friends use my name only when they talk with each other about me in my presence or when they call me to get my attention.

joshu 17y ago

I've always wanted to build a site that does a tl;dr of advice books, since it always feels like a few simple things plus a boatload of stories and blah blah etc.

davidw 17y ago
If you want a piece of http://www.squeezedbooks.com http://www.squeezedbooks.com , you're welcome to it. I'd love to hear your ideas about making it better. Phillip Greenspun puts it rather nicely on a review of "Crossing the Chasm": "This book illustrates a fault in the publishing industry. If you have a 50-page idea it is too long for a magazine. But it is too short for a book. So if you wanted to get it distributed before the Web came along, you had to drop in words until you reached 200 pages."
vl 17y ago
Ironically, I feel that Getting Things Done (of all things :) needs this treatment more than many other books. I think GTD ideas would be much better digestible in form of concise 30-50 page article as opposed to the tedious and inflated read the actual book is.
scorpioxy 17y ago
But that takes the fun out of reading the books. Plus, the advice in the Carnegie book are well known. As in, they're pretty obvious. But i think the way he tells the story to emphasize his point is what makes the book such a classic. I too resisted reading it for a long time because of the silly title and because I don't like reading "advice" books. But i broke down a few years ago and actually read it and it was a good read.

covercash 17y ago

I just listened to the audiobook and jotted down very similar notes on my whiteboard. Thanks for sharing!

aneth 17y ago

This book is filled with great anecdotes and effective strategies. I've used a lot of them, however there are some downsides. 1) By constantly making people feel good about themselves, you create a sense of entitlement and pride which can be very difficult to work with when you need them to stand down. There is a reason they tear you down before they build you up in boot camp. 2) People who religiously practice this style of communication can seem annoying and manipulative, even if they are successful and popular. When I've followed the advice in this book completely, I've ended up feeling more popular but also more alone. I've found a sprinkled dose reality check can be a good thing for all involved, particularly those you care most about.

petercooper 17y ago
I've ended up feeling more popular but also more alone. Anecdotally, it seems to me that, on average, the most successful members of our society are lonelier than the average - celebrities go on about it a lot. Luckily, people are motivated by different things. Many people are glad to be financially poor but well loved in their communities. Others prefer the alternative. None of this is good or bad unless it feels so to you. Was becoming more popular but distanced good to you? If not, I can certainly see why you might want to tone down the charm :-)
- aneth 17y ago
  I'm much happier with real mutually respectful relationships - the kind you can't establish by acting like a politician. I find every time I play these flattery games with long term relationships, it keeps things rolling, but leaves a deep division. This book is great for people who want to establish a network or run for office. It also provides food for thought in more personal relationships, but it's dangerous to act this way to real friends.

algorias 17y ago

There's only one way to make people like you, actually, or am I misreading that sentence? ;)

davidcuddeback 17y ago

Much of the advice in this book can be explained by people wanting to feel important. Doing anything that makes people feel less important (criticizing, arguing, saying "you're wrong") doesn't help your situation. Doing anything that makes people feel more important (give sincere appreciation, remember a person's name, let others talk about themselves) likely will help your situation. I still recommend reading this book. You'll get a lot more out of it than you will from summaries, because the book contains real-life examples that clarify what each principle means and how it can be applied. If you're put off by the title, remember that it was written in 1936. "Influence people," sounds very manipulative today, but in the book it simply means "to be an influential person." I think that's an important distinction to make, because the latter is more relationship-oriented than the former.

csallen 17y ago

I find it depressing that the best way to get on someone's good side is a combination of gratuitous flattery and ignoring their faults. Have you ever noticed how much of our language is devoted to simply not offending people?

davidcuddeback 17y ago
I disagree. I think flattery backfires, because most people can detect it. Flattery is what comes out of your mouth if your thoughts are not genuine. Dale Carnegie doesn't promote ignoring people's faults. His book is about how to work around or correct people's faults without insulting them.
kyro 17y ago
If you read the book, it specifically tells you to not resort to gratuitous flattery and instead give genuine, meaningful, and honest praise. The book also suggests you to point out people's faults in a more indirect and encouraging manner, so as to incite a desire to improve rather than a doubt of one's abilities.

phugoid 17y ago

Think of... - a few real people you like, and would like to know better - the most convincing people you know - the best leader you ever followed How do those people fare alongside Carnegie's recipes for success? In my case, I'd say "not too well".

njl 17y ago

If you do want to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", try to get an older version of it. It has been rewritten over and over by Carnegie's successors, with more "relevant" but less interesting anecdotes. The original is filled with fun anecdotes about turn-of-the-century robber barons. Good stuff.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

doron 17y ago

"Lie, Cheat, Steal, and listen to heavy metal music." or was that something else?

zavulon 17y ago

I used to be a big fan of this book, but every time I tried applying the principles, I only did it in the 1-2 "insipired" weeks, right after reading or re-reading the book. Then, as time passed, I gradually shifted into my old habits. I used to blame my weak willpower for a while for that - but now I think the problem could be with the book itself. I feel the problem is that this book focuses too much on the 'outside', the presentation layer, instead of the 'inside'. It's how to act like you're a successful, popular person with lots of friends, even if you're far from it on the inside. Of course, many have noted that acting "as if" will eventually turn you into that person, I think that's true only if you actively focus on that goal. The book does not. It only occasionally pays lip service to "inner character" (ten pages about smiling a lot... and in the end "oh by the way, you actually have to be nice for this to work"). Having said that, I still think it's a very good book for many geeks who have no idea about social norms at all, to provide as sort of tutorial on this topic.

aneth 17y ago
Sounds like you had a similar experience to mine. The book has powerful concepts but is dangerous for the soul.

bh23ha 17y ago

Don't criticize, condemn or complain. Certainly don't condemn, that's just being a dick. Be careful about criticising, will that really and I mean really help? Complain? Trying to stay positive is good for your mental health. Never complaining, not so much. Completely hiding your feelings is bad for one of the most important things in life: Making a true and honest connection with other people. Give honest and sincere appreciation. Or to put in a more general way, seek honesty and communication. Arouse in the other person an eager want. Aha! This must be the secret to influencing, but.. uhm... how do you do that exactly? Become genuinely interested in other people. Sure, again seek genuinely human connections, that's a good thing. Smile. :) Remember that a person's name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language. Not for me, you can call me anything as long as you're good to me. A great old guy completely screwed up my name once, to the point of calling me a completely different name. By the time I realized he was NOT talking to someone else, it was in front of company and I didn't want to embarrass the old man. He kept calling a name which was 100% not my name, but he was a great guy! I like that guy a lot. So yeah, what ever. It's not about the name, it's about showing you care about someone, the name's just a small part of that. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. In other words, interrupting people is rude, and talking too much is also kind of a dick move. Talk in terms of the other person's interests. Communicating with others is honestly hard, it really is. One "trick" you can use is try and frame things in a way the other person can understand, use metaphors invoking things they like etc. As you communicate with someone the understanding between you and them will grow and you can communicate more with less effort. Make the other person feel important - and do it sincerely. Oh I bet that's another secret, and how do you exactly and sincerely make people feel important? All I can guess is listening and communicating without treating them a like an inferior. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. Sure don't be that guy that looooves arguments. Unless you're having dinner with Brits, arguments are just damn good fun, it's bad if you can't hold your own! And some, in fact often the most important arguments can NOT be avoided. In fact, a pathological avoidance of arguments will in the long term NOT make you popular. The above rule can be put more simply as: "Don't be a dick." Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say, "You're wrong" Don't be a dick. If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically. Be honest, communicate, don't be afraid of failure or embarrassment. Begin in a friendly way. Don't be a dick. Get the other person saying "yes, yes" immediately. And how do you do that exactly? Do you open with: Is the sun bright or what? Let the other person do a great deal of the talking. Don't be a dick. Let the other person feel that the idea is his or hers. Or maybe you should seek agreement, and try and make them see things your way and tell them how their way of thinking inspired yours, and don't be a manipulative sociopath. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view. Don't be a dick. Be honest, communicate... I feel like I'm repeating myself. Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires. I am repeating myself. Appeal to the nobler motives. Yes appeal to things which are good and legal, not damaging and/or illegal things. Dramatize your ideas. Communicating with other is really hard. You can't just dump a succinct thought in your head and expect everyone else to get it. Throw down a challenge. Or offer something that's fun. Just don't bring people down and don't be a dick. Begin with praise and honest appreciation. Positivity, honest communication, etc. Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly. Don't be a dick, but do be honest and sincere. Don't be an obtuse prick, people do appreciate honest communication. Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person. Don't be a dick. Ask questions instead of giving direct orders. Use the Socratic method of teaching. If you can that is. That shit ain't easy! Let the other person save face. Don't be a dick, and try not to embarrass people. Praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement. Be "hearty in your approbation and lavish in your praise. You might not want to "make it rain" with cash, but verbal recognition cost you nothing so the ROI is like infinite. Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to. Yes, when most people think you don't think much of them, they'll meet your expectations. Use encouragement. Didn't we just talk about that? Make the fault seem easy to correct. Don't be a dick, be honest but positive and don't embarrass people. Make the other person happy about doing the thing you suggest. The best you can do is invest a lot of effort into honest communication and making the other person feel respected and that you think of them highly. And then try to tell them why what you suggest is important to you and try to communicate your ideas as best as you can, dramatically, with things they are interested in, etc. And if that's not enough, you're screwed. But maybe they'll still do it. Just don't be a dick or a sociopath. Now recently I by accident (pointless small talk before a meeting) found out my manager and I share a common interest. We've been talking about it often because we enjoy talking about it. And recently I also mentioned I wished one of the projects I'm on had him as a manager, but I was also happy he was happy not be part of that cluster fuck. Yet I've never red "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and I haven't seen this website before today. All I try to do is: 1. Not be a dick. 2. Be honest. 3. Be positive. 3. Avoid fear, embarrassment, false pride, etc.

gyom 17y ago

I read Dale Carnegie's book 4-5 times over because I enjoyed reading it. It really backfired on me one time, though. I was staying in a hostel and some guy was angry at me (it's not important why). I decided to go for the "take the blame, and agree that it's your fault to disarm your opponent who expected a fight". The angry guy really felt like I was patronizing and I didn't give a shit about him, which just made him more angry. Oops. I was convinced that my Carnegie verbal kung fu was better than that. I made note and next time I'll argue briefly before conceding and moving on. I also agree with someone in this thread who said that it's annoying when you suspect that these techniques are being used on you. I have a friend who reads those kinds of books and I regularly wonder if he is being genuine when he asks my opinion about something.