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Then how can you trust the intercepts cherry picking of the documents trove snowden took? My argument is it's pretty ballsy to call people out about transparen

Then how can you trust the intercepts cherry picking of the documents trove snowden took? My argument is it's pretty ballsy to call people out about transparency knowing they can't argue and that there are likely contradictions or at least further details being omitted by hand selecting documents for dissemination. It's really the same issue on both sides. Neither are telling the whole story. I would argue your comment "Its all too easy to give out just enough info to get people chasing after the wrong thing." is a correct statement for both sides.

tr1ck5t3r 10y ago
The Intercept is just making money, people will do what they can to make money, including murder sometimes as our armed forces demonstrate, as do other killers. Capitalism is the best control system which no one can buy. But I also believe Snowden is a false flag global psychological experiment to see if human behaviour can be shaped with the "leaked" knowledge from Snowden. If you watch this https://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_... If you know you are being watched will you "behave" better? This is in effect what is going on, and the spooks already admit that some "suspects" have gone to ground since Snowden. The debate on whats right and wrong which forms our laws will still rage on though. Perhaps The Intercept is just a useful idiot including Snowden in the scheme of things. I saw a comment that said Snowden has never thanked Putin or Russia for giving him asylum, and apparently its very rare for Russia to give asylum. I agree about calling out those who cant speak out due to be being bound by secrecy, but this is the problem. Today us humans have created a society that could well come back to bite us due to technological advancements. Sometimes its not what is said that counts but the actions that ensue which matters more, or who benefits from the disclosure. In this case if you take spying/hacking, one of the things thats now going on is other countries like Russia and China are now concentrating on developing their own chips, HW, software and generally improving security at a country as well as a business & individual level. This helps the spooks in some ways as they no longer have to defend their own in the same way or with as much resource. Likewise this also promotes innovation after all, what will the Chinese or Russians or anyone else come up with in a bid to keep "foreign" hackers out of systems? Take religion, it was generally an effective method to control the uneducated by putting the fear of god into people. Could you or anyone else come up with anything better than religion all those hundreds of years ago? We had limited knowledge, limited tools, less communication which includes travel so as always intelligent people "mis"directed less informed/educated people. Its human nature to climb the monkey tree so to speak. Who doesnt want to be top dog? Some people learn from being dictated/taught and others learn from experience. So fast forward to today and we are still dealing with the ramifications of decisions think ISIS with their religous killings made by people hundreds of years ago still causing problems even though at the time it was thought to be the best solution, after all who could have imagined todays technology back then? Arguably we are now capable of playing god with what has been developed today. But at the same time we face new problems like a still increasing global population on a finite planet with limited resources. Ok the development of agrichemicals has helped increase farm yields so we can now feed more people today than ever before, and money also helps control people as you cant do much without x amount of money, but as we now go into a grand solar minimum, famine is the biggest issue we now potentially face right when this planets population is at its greatest. The population exploded with the discovery and development of oil. If we took fossil fuels out of the equation the global population would fall over night very rapidly and chaos would ensue. Who wants to put their kids through a dystopian future? So whilst there may be justifications for the actions of the spooks, their methods imo stink as it could be argued they including Govt have betrayed our trust. So Snowden has been useful for focusing our attentions using perhaps the best method to get us to stand on our own two feet with regard to computer security. Lets face it, due to Dunbars number most people only care about themselves, and upto about 150 other people. On a planet with 13billion people thats alot of people not giving a toss about alot of other people. Our own human nature could be our ultimate downfall unless we can be manipulated into what todays supposedly intelligent people deem fit for today and tomorrow, just like religion was useful for keeping the uneducated masses in check in ye olde times. Take WW2 that was in part due to limited resources, in fact studies into legumes in the 50's were to see if they could be used as a safe food source. Today the UN advocates eating insects in order to find another protein source on this overpopulated finite planet. Dont get me wrong, I have experienced some of the methods used by the spooks due to family which is another story, but I see both sides of the coin and whilst we all generally want a good happy fun filled life, we also have differences and consolidating those differences which could have been created due to the data (teachings, media et al) we have been exposed to over out lifetime which in turn fuels our biases and beliefs is what needs tackling. Likewise power corrupts, its a heady mix, much like testosterone or cocaine so the structures in place, the clandestine meetings of top knobs in business and govt like we see with the Bilderberg meetings and other soirees is largely driven by what people want. As a race and guardians of the planet we cant sit on our laurels, so we need to be manipulated, coerced or "mis"directed into the "right" directions and actions whatever they maybe in order to continue to survive the threats which we face today. At the same time, those at the top dont want to relinquish their privilege, beit inherited or worked and those at the bottom will always want to be at the top. So its complicated as always, but also interesting including pushing boundaries including playing devils advocate in whatever shape or form that might be. Sometimes all the brain storming in the world cant find a solution until put in that situation which dictates the need for a solution.

tr1ck5t3r 10y ago

The Intercept is just making money, people will do what they can to make money, including murder sometimes as our armed forces demonstrate, as do other killers. Capitalism is the best control system which no one can buy. But I also believe Snowden is a false flag global psychological experiment to see if human behaviour can be shaped with the "leaked" knowledge from Snowden. If you watch this https://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_... If you know you are being watched will you "behave" better? This is in effect what is going on, and the spooks already admit that some "suspects" have gone to ground since Snowden. The debate on whats right and wrong which forms our laws will still rage on though. Perhaps The Intercept is just a useful idiot including Snowden in the scheme of things. I saw a comment that said Snowden has never thanked Putin or Russia for giving him asylum, and apparently its very rare for Russia to give asylum. I agree about calling out those who cant speak out due to be being bound by secrecy, but this is the problem. Today us humans have created a society that could well come back to bite us due to technological advancements. Sometimes its not what is said that counts but the actions that ensue which matters more, or who benefits from the disclosure. In this case if you take spying/hacking, one of the things thats now going on is other countries like Russia and China are now concentrating on developing their own chips, HW, software and generally improving security at a country as well as a business & individual level. This helps the spooks in some ways as they no longer have to defend their own in the same way or with as much resource. Likewise this also promotes innovation after all, what will the Chinese or Russians or anyone else come up with in a bid to keep "foreign" hackers out of systems? Take religion, it was generally an effective method to control the uneducated by putting the fear of god into people. Could you or anyone else come up with anything better than religion all those hundreds of years ago? We had limited knowledge, limited tools, less communication which includes travel so as always intelligent people "mis"directed less informed/educated people. Its human nature to climb the monkey tree so to speak. Who doesnt want to be top dog? Some people learn from being dictated/taught and others learn from experience. So fast forward to today and we are still dealing with the ramifications of decisions think ISIS with their religous killings made by people hundreds of years ago still causing problems even though at the time it was thought to be the best solution, after all who could have imagined todays technology back then? Arguably we are now capable of playing god with what has been developed today. But at the same time we face new problems like a still increasing global population on a finite planet with limited resources. Ok the development of agrichemicals has helped increase farm yields so we can now feed more people today than ever before, and money also helps control people as you cant do much without x amount of money, but as we now go into a grand solar minimum, famine is the biggest issue we now potentially face right when this planets population is at its greatest. The population exploded with the discovery and development of oil. If we took fossil fuels out of the equation the global population would fall over night very rapidly and chaos would ensue. Who wants to put their kids through a dystopian future? So whilst there may be justifications for the actions of the spooks, their methods imo stink as it could be argued they including Govt have betrayed our trust. So Snowden has been useful for focusing our attentions using perhaps the best method to get us to stand on our own two feet with regard to computer security. Lets face it, due to Dunbars number most people only care about themselves, and upto about 150 other people. On a planet with 13billion people thats alot of people not giving a toss about alot of other people. Our own human nature could be our ultimate downfall unless we can be manipulated into what todays supposedly intelligent people deem fit for today and tomorrow, just like religion was useful for keeping the uneducated masses in check in ye olde times. Take WW2 that was in part due to limited resources, in fact studies into legumes in the 50's were to see if they could be used as a safe food source. Today the UN advocates eating insects in order to find another protein source on this overpopulated finite planet. Dont get me wrong, I have experienced some of the methods used by the spooks due to family which is another story, but I see both sides of the coin and whilst we all generally want a good happy fun filled life, we also have differences and consolidating those differences which could have been created due to the data (teachings, media et al) we have been exposed to over out lifetime which in turn fuels our biases and beliefs is what needs tackling. Likewise power corrupts, its a heady mix, much like testosterone or cocaine so the structures in place, the clandestine meetings of top knobs in business and govt like we see with the Bilderberg meetings and other soirees is largely driven by what people want. As a race and guardians of the planet we cant sit on our laurels, so we need to be manipulated, coerced or "mis"directed into the "right" directions and actions whatever they maybe in order to continue to survive the threats which we face today. At the same time, those at the top dont want to relinquish their privilege, beit inherited or worked and those at the bottom will always want to be at the top. So its complicated as always, but also interesting including pushing boundaries including playing devils advocate in whatever shape or form that might be. Sometimes all the brain storming in the world cant find a solution until put in that situation which dictates the need for a solution.