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A genetic male with gender dysphoria would agree with the objective fact that they have a penis. Their subjective experience would say "I should have a vagina i

A genetic male with gender dysphoria would agree with the objective fact that they have a penis. Their subjective experience would say "I should have a vagina instead". A delusionally paranoid person would make a claim: "There are dozens of people following me with the goal to ruin my life". Their perception isn't possible to reconcile with the objective reality of "No one is following you, and no one just whispered 'Now you see how it works' into your ear." In the first case, the person isn't delusional about objective facts, but their subjective interpretation is unusual. In the second case, the person and an outside observer would disagree about things that you'd expect to be objective facts. If the first person told you "No, that's not a penis", then the two people would be equally unreasonable. The difference is that it's difficult to apply objective reason to subjective experience.

animeweedlord 10y ago
But many don't see it that way. They don't think "I wish I was a woman" or "I should have been a woman." They think "I am a woman."
- khedoros 10y ago
  Their definition of "woman" doesn't have the requirement of a vagina, though. In their minds, gender is a subjective mental state. Ask if they have a penis. When it comes down to concrete realities, I doubt that most of them would say "no". If someone abducted me and forced a sex-change operation on me, then I'd have to say that I had a vagina, but I'd still say that I was a man. I'd consider the physical state of my body a result of an act of mutilation. Them saying "I am a woman", or me saying "I am a man", is a statement of gender (a social construct) rather than sex (a biological fact). Traditionally, we'd consider sex and gender to be in lockstep, and it wouldn't be useful to consider them as anything but perfect synonyms. "I'm male" is a simple enough concept. It means three things: that I have a penis, consider myself male, and I'm attracted to females. Add in the 5%-ish of the population where the 3rd point is completely false, and the larger percent where it's true, but not completely exclusive. Add in the smaller segment of the population where the second point doesn't match the first. Add in the yet smaller segment where even the first point doesn't have a binary truth value. This isn't to say that there aren't delusional people that would argue about the observable biological state, just that mostly I'd think they're talking about their perception of their own gender, rather than their perception of their sex.
  - jasonm23 10y ago
    > If someone abducted me and forced a sex-change operation on me, then I'd have to say that I had a vagina, but I'd still say that I was a man. Reminded me of "The Skin I'm in"

animeweedlord 10y ago

But many don't see it that way. They don't think "I wish I was a woman" or "I should have been a woman." They think "I am a woman."

khedoros 10y ago
Their definition of "woman" doesn't have the requirement of a vagina, though. In their minds, gender is a subjective mental state. Ask if they have a penis. When it comes down to concrete realities, I doubt that most of them would say "no". If someone abducted me and forced a sex-change operation on me, then I'd have to say that I had a vagina, but I'd still say that I was a man. I'd consider the physical state of my body a result of an act of mutilation. Them saying "I am a woman", or me saying "I am a man", is a statement of gender (a social construct) rather than sex (a biological fact). Traditionally, we'd consider sex and gender to be in lockstep, and it wouldn't be useful to consider them as anything but perfect synonyms. "I'm male" is a simple enough concept. It means three things: that I have a penis, consider myself male, and I'm attracted to females. Add in the 5%-ish of the population where the 3rd point is completely false, and the larger percent where it's true, but not completely exclusive. Add in the smaller segment of the population where the second point doesn't match the first. Add in the yet smaller segment where even the first point doesn't have a binary truth value. This isn't to say that there aren't delusional people that would argue about the observable biological state, just that mostly I'd think they're talking about their perception of their own gender, rather than their perception of their sex.
- jasonm23 10y ago
  > If someone abducted me and forced a sex-change operation on me, then I'd have to say that I had a vagina, but I'd still say that I was a man. Reminded me of "The Skin I'm in"