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Analysis of GPS logs uncovers multimillion $ NYC cab scam

52 points by MykalMorton 17y ago

gyardley 17y ago
When I hop into a cab in NYC, I generally spend a lot more than the $4.55 this article implies the average fare should be - since $4.55 is the average overcharge, and since the overcharged rate is double. If this was just user error I'd expect the overcharge to be near the average fare - looks to me like the cabbies are deliberately ripping off people who want to go just a short distance, probably out of irritation.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  Wouldn't the $4.55 over just be metered distance? You also pay a flat fee when you get in, pay when the cab is idling, and pay for any tolls you pass - those wouldn't be effected. It's been a while since I was in New York though, and I usually tried to avoid cabs.
  - gyardley 17y ago
    Yes, this is all true. Didn't add it because I didn't think it modified my point much.
spuz 17y ago
Well who didn't see that one coming?
- Jim72 17y ago
  The overcharged customers, of course... all 1.8 million of them. Pity, as the meter in a cab is clearly visible and the regulations are posted for the passenger to see.
Mz 17y ago
The scam was primarily perpetrated by a small number of drivers, with 3,000 of them overcharging more than 100 times, the agency said. While the 1.8 million overcharged trips is a large number, it represents only 0.5 percent of the 361 million taxi trips taken during the 26-month period the agency studied. Given the tiny percentage, I think calling it a "scam" is a bit over the top. Who doesn't make an occasional mistake? ------- A single cabby was accused this month of overcharging passengers a total of $40,000. On the other hand, this was probably not a mistake. But in many cases, I would guess it was an innocent mistake.
- mhb 17y ago
  What is the value of the "mistakes" made by cabbies undercharging Westchester travelers with the Manhattan rate?
- jonknee 17y ago
  The "innocent mistake" primarily consisted of a small number of drivers who did it more than 100 times... That's pretty telling. If it was a mistake why did they do it over 100 times? The rules are pretty simple and no cabbie mistakenly thinks they are in Westchester when they are on Park Ave. It's quite obviously a scam, but not one that all NYC cabbies perpetrated.
  - Mz 17y ago
    I already acknowledged that some cases are pretty clearly not just human error. And I haven't really been to New York (drove through there on the way to the Boston area once), so I don't really know firsthand. However, the cliche is that New York cabbies are typically foreign and speak poor English. So I have a little difficulty thinking that they all are perfectly clear about every detail of their jobs and there are no mistakes rooted in language barrier/cultural barrier/just not knowing the geography as well as a native of the area likely would.
    - illumen 17y ago
      This is no where near as big a problem these days with navigation systems. Of course, good cab drivers with the 'knowledge' will beat the navigation system ones a lot. At least now the bad cab drivers get you there now. Without having to spend 10 minutes reading a map.
oldgregg 17y ago
And we all wondered why they so adamantly opposed having GPS installed...
- sliverstorm 17y ago
  No. No, we didn't wonder. We knew and they knew.
  - andrewcooke 17y ago
    i don't see how that makes sense. the fraction of drivers doing this, according to the report, is small. so if there was a popular objection then it must also have included people (a majority) who don't do this. perhaps people simply value privacy, even while doing their job. [also - note how the bad behaviour of a minority is being used to justify the loss of privacy by the majority; this happens again and again]
    - jfager 17y ago
      Why would a cab driver have an expectation that his location be private when driving people around in a cab? That makes no sense.
      - andrewcooke 17y ago
        you really think the customer knowing a driver's location, or someone seeing them go past on the street, is the same as a centralised record?
        jfager 17y ago
        Not at all, when did I say that? I said it makes no sense to think a cab driver has any reasonable expectation that the location of his cab would be private in any sense when it's in service and carrying passengers. As a frequent cab rider, I'm happy to know that the location of the stranger's car that I just jumped into is tracked and recorded at all times. Why do you think this information should be kept private?
RK 17y ago
Who will write an android/iphone app for passengers to double check this? Edit: Looks like they already exist: http://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+taxi+meter+app http://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+taxi+meter+app
ghshephard 17y ago
As one who has taken taxis on a daily to weekly basis for the last ten years, I've never understood how on earth a Taxi Driver can pull scams on their passengers. I flag locally, call for a pickup, as well as take cabs from airports. I've done this thousands of times in ten years. In _all_ of that time, the closest I've seen to an errant fare (keeping in mind, I make the same trip hundreds of times with dozens of taxis drivers, as well as having Google Maps give me detailed distance information) is low tire pressure on a Taxi that took what should have been a $35 taxi fare to $38. It's amazing how little the "waiting time" charge varies a ride taken at a particular time. It's usually within 30-50 cents on a $40 ride at most. I've never had a taxi driver try and determine if I was a "regular" or "out of towner" - and I rarely do more than just give them an address. So I find it, based on my own experiences, very, very hard to believe that Taxi Drivers are engaging in any kind of widespread scam - unless they pull it on the blatant foreigners. If I ever had a Taxi driver charge me the wrong rate, I wouldn't even dispute it with him, I'd just call their administrative oversight (which, in most cities, is the local police) and let them deal with it. So, as much as people want to suggest "GPS Logs" are uncovering something - I'd have to suggest that by and large there is nothing to uncover. I'd be interested in seeing further details on these taxi drivers who have supposedly overcharged 100s of times - People like me would have flipped and/or called the police if they tried it even _once_ on us. Color me dubious.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  Compare: "Hey driver, 30th and 3rd please." "Hi, umm, do we want to go the Empire State Building next? Umm, okay, yeah, Empire State Building please." -> Flip into doubletime.

52 points by MykalMorton 17y ago

When I hop into a cab in NYC, I generally spend a lot more than the $4.55 this article implies the average fare should be - since $4.55 is the average overcharge, and since the overcharged rate is double. If this was just user error I'd expect the overcharge to be near the average fare - looks to me like the cabbies are deliberately ripping off people who want to go just a short distance, probably out of irritation.

lionhearted 17y ago
Wouldn't the $4.55 over just be metered distance? You also pay a flat fee when you get in, pay when the cab is idling, and pay for any tolls you pass - those wouldn't be effected. It's been a while since I was in New York though, and I usually tried to avoid cabs.
- gyardley 17y ago
  Yes, this is all true. Didn't add it because I didn't think it modified my point much.

spuz 17y ago

Well who didn't see that one coming?

Jim72 17y ago
The overcharged customers, of course... all 1.8 million of them. Pity, as the meter in a cab is clearly visible and the regulations are posted for the passenger to see.

Mz 17y ago

The scam was primarily perpetrated by a small number of drivers, with 3,000 of them overcharging more than 100 times, the agency said. While the 1.8 million overcharged trips is a large number, it represents only 0.5 percent of the 361 million taxi trips taken during the 26-month period the agency studied. Given the tiny percentage, I think calling it a "scam" is a bit over the top. Who doesn't make an occasional mistake? ------- A single cabby was accused this month of overcharging passengers a total of $40,000. On the other hand, this was probably not a mistake. But in many cases, I would guess it was an innocent mistake.

mhb 17y ago
What is the value of the "mistakes" made by cabbies undercharging Westchester travelers with the Manhattan rate?
jonknee 17y ago
The "innocent mistake" primarily consisted of a small number of drivers who did it more than 100 times... That's pretty telling. If it was a mistake why did they do it over 100 times? The rules are pretty simple and no cabbie mistakenly thinks they are in Westchester when they are on Park Ave. It's quite obviously a scam, but not one that all NYC cabbies perpetrated.
- Mz 17y ago
  I already acknowledged that some cases are pretty clearly not just human error. And I haven't really been to New York (drove through there on the way to the Boston area once), so I don't really know firsthand. However, the cliche is that New York cabbies are typically foreign and speak poor English. So I have a little difficulty thinking that they all are perfectly clear about every detail of their jobs and there are no mistakes rooted in language barrier/cultural barrier/just not knowing the geography as well as a native of the area likely would.
  - illumen 17y ago
    This is no where near as big a problem these days with navigation systems. Of course, good cab drivers with the 'knowledge' will beat the navigation system ones a lot. At least now the bad cab drivers get you there now. Without having to spend 10 minutes reading a map.

oldgregg 17y ago

And we all wondered why they so adamantly opposed having GPS installed...

sliverstorm 17y ago
No. No, we didn't wonder. We knew and they knew.
- andrewcooke 17y ago
  i don't see how that makes sense. the fraction of drivers doing this, according to the report, is small. so if there was a popular objection then it must also have included people (a majority) who don't do this. perhaps people simply value privacy, even while doing their job. [also - note how the bad behaviour of a minority is being used to justify the loss of privacy by the majority; this happens again and again]
  - jfager 17y ago
    Why would a cab driver have an expectation that his location be private when driving people around in a cab? That makes no sense.
    - andrewcooke 17y ago
      you really think the customer knowing a driver's location, or someone seeing them go past on the street, is the same as a centralised record?
      - jfager 17y ago
        Not at all, when did I say that? I said it makes no sense to think a cab driver has any reasonable expectation that the location of his cab would be private in any sense when it's in service and carrying passengers. As a frequent cab rider, I'm happy to know that the location of the stranger's car that I just jumped into is tracked and recorded at all times. Why do you think this information should be kept private?

RK 17y ago

Who will write an android/iphone app for passengers to double check this? Edit: Looks like they already exist: http://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+taxi+meter+app http://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+taxi+meter+app

ghshephard 17y ago

As one who has taken taxis on a daily to weekly basis for the last ten years, I've never understood how on earth a Taxi Driver can pull scams on their passengers. I flag locally, call for a pickup, as well as take cabs from airports. I've done this thousands of times in ten years. In _all_ of that time, the closest I've seen to an errant fare (keeping in mind, I make the same trip hundreds of times with dozens of taxis drivers, as well as having Google Maps give me detailed distance information) is low tire pressure on a Taxi that took what should have been a $35 taxi fare to $38. It's amazing how little the "waiting time" charge varies a ride taken at a particular time. It's usually within 30-50 cents on a $40 ride at most. I've never had a taxi driver try and determine if I was a "regular" or "out of towner" - and I rarely do more than just give them an address. So I find it, based on my own experiences, very, very hard to believe that Taxi Drivers are engaging in any kind of widespread scam - unless they pull it on the blatant foreigners. If I ever had a Taxi driver charge me the wrong rate, I wouldn't even dispute it with him, I'd just call their administrative oversight (which, in most cities, is the local police) and let them deal with it. So, as much as people want to suggest "GPS Logs" are uncovering something - I'd have to suggest that by and large there is nothing to uncover. I'd be interested in seeing further details on these taxi drivers who have supposedly overcharged 100s of times - People like me would have flipped and/or called the police if they tried it even _once_ on us. Color me dubious.

lionhearted 17y ago
Compare: "Hey driver, 30th and 3rd please." "Hi, umm, do we want to go the Empire State Building next? Umm, okay, yeah, Empire State Building please." -> Flip into doubletime.