6 ms·

Just so folks understand: in Canada (actually, pretty much everywhere but America) every bank issues it's own non-credit-card affiliated debit card that can be

by mabbo 10y ago

Just so folks understand: in Canada (actually, pretty much everywhere but America) every bank issues it's own non-credit-card affiliated debit card that can be used to pay for things at stores (or get money at the ATM). So this is annoying, but not a huge deal. I'll get to the cash, get told "sorry, no visa", and take out my debit card to pay that way instead. Really not a big deal. It's just Walmart annoying their customers to try to prove some point to Visa.

justin66 10y ago
What distinction are you drawing to the debit cards that banks in the US issue with the visa or MasterCard logo?
- ForHackernews 10y ago
  In some countries, there exist electronic payment processing networks other than Visa/Mastercard.
  - justin66 10y ago
    And those countries include the United States. No idea why that's relevant.
    - ForHackernews 10y ago
      I'm not sure what extremely pedantic point you're trying to make. The relevance of the parent you responded to is that a Canadian shop not accepting Visa (or Mastercard) is only a very mild inconvenience because there are other widely used payment networks.
      - justin66 10y ago
        I'm not sure what got so complicated about this question, but I was wondering what the person initially responded to here was talking about: in Canada (actually, pretty much everywhere but America) since the systems sound pretty identical.
        ForHackernews 10y ago
        I don't see what you're not understanding. If you live in America, then surely you are aware that Visa + Mastercard are overwhelmingly dominant as payment networks, yes? Obviously Discover, Amex and Diner's Club exist, but they are barely worth mentioning. Hardly anyone (proportionally) carries those cards, and only a few merchants accept them. In the United States, for a merchant to refuse Visa would be suicidal. In Canada, it's almost a non-issue because all the debit cards are processed on another, non-Visa network. What of the above do you disagree with?
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  It isn't affiliated with visa or mastercard at all. It is called interac. It is not a special debit card, it is just your normal bank card.
  - kahnpro 10y ago
    In fact, they are in competition, Interac is trying to keep things like Visa Debit out if the country. My bank card now is both an Interac card and a Visa Debit card. But the Visa Debit part work anywhere except online US retailers.
  - justin66 10y ago
    Remove "visa" and "mastercard" from the comment I made and the question still stands.
    - MustardTiger 10y ago
      Remove "visa" and "mastercard" and I still answered your question. It is not through credit card payment processing.
Symbiote 10y ago
Everywhere but America? My British debit cards use either the Visa or Mastercard network. My Danish one does too, though it also uses the local Dankort network if available.
- mabbo 10y ago
  Really? When I lived in Britain 6 years ago my debit card had no credit card affiliation, didn't see any that did.
  - thesimon 10y ago
    Probably back in day the card used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card) A few years ago the pinguins took over (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x48eLs8tnJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x48eLs8tnJo) and basically every card in the UK is now either Visa/MasterCard/Amex and very few Maestro.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
      Ah. That explains why when my Maestro card expired, it was replaced with a Visa Debit card. The latter is more widely accepted for online shopping (only some merchants accept Maestro, whereas everyone accepts Visa and Visa Debit usually works there), so I was happy.
  - akhatri_aus 10y ago
    The cards have Visa or Mastercard on them but can fall back to use the debit card network by asking you which account to pay with. The merchant can also disable you from selecting 'credit' while paying to force it to use the debit network. Its also like this in Australia. Very few banks still issue debit only cards (Switch/Maestro), they do if you ask for them, but they mostly only work at the ATM.
    - Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
      > asking you which account to pay with This never happens in the UK. It confuses the heck out of me in countries where it does (e.g. New Zealand).
douche 10y ago
Except its still a debit card, with all of the problems of debit cards, and none of the additional protections you get from using a credit card. Somebody steals your credit card and goes on a spree? Call your bank, dispute the charges, and life goes on. Somebody steals your debit card? Good luck, money is gone from your bank account, and BTW, your mortgage and auto payments just bounced, so we're going to tack on some overdraft fees too. Have a nice day.
- peeters 10y ago
  > Somebody steals your debit card? Good luck, money is gone from your bank account I had $4000 stolen from my bank account via a compromised debit card. The charges were reversed the same day. The bank is still liable for fraudulent transactions if you didn't authorize them.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    It's a classic case of who is carrying the burden. With credit it's he bank. Fine show my account balance 4k high, I refuse to pay my bill. Same thing with debit and it's my cash missing, and I need to go through a dance to get my own cash back. In fact just had a CC stolen last week. No harm to me because I wasn't holding the burden. I refuse to use my debit card for anything but at an ATM.
    - theonemind 10y ago
      My bank issued me a debit/ATM card by default. I asked, and they replaced it with a plain ATM card that's not a debit card. They also had this insecure-dy-default behavior allowing checking account overdraws to start pulling out of savings. It's worth checking that setting, too.
      - jdeibele 10y ago
        I was interested to read in the comments on a different topic that businesses typically have a deposit-only account, a withdrawals-only account and an account in the middle. As a family, we set up an extra account at Schwab to write checks and do automatic payments against. There wasn't any additional cost to us - having some money sitting in the account is hardly worth worrying about with what Schwab (or anyone else) pays in interest. The big benefit to me is that the account doesn't have over-draft protections. I have to manually move money into the account from a different account where paychecks, etc. go into. That account can't write checks, etc. If our account is compromised, well, we lose (temporarily, I hope) what's in there but not the cash that accumulates to pay for property taxes, etc.
the_watcher 10y ago
> It's just Walmart annoying their customers to try to prove some point to Visa. What? It's very, very clear that this is about fees.
criddell 10y ago
Is this only for VISA credit cards, or would debit cards with the VISA logo also be affected?
- stormbrew 10y ago
  Canadian visa debits are still interac cards, and most retailers in Canada have their machines set up to only allow treating them as such (because fees). This is actually a bit annoying when the interac network is down, but not the credit card network.
chrismaeda 10y ago
In Canada, debit transactions are run through the Interac network, which is a non-profit set up by the Canadian banks. Interac also has an email money transfer service which is widely used. Canadian banking is different from everywhere because the market is protected from foreign competition. It makes Canadian bank stocks good to own, but makes banking expensive and annoying for Canadians.
- mthoms 10y ago
  All true, but the system arguably has some important advantages. The rate of tech adoption (e.g. Interac) and the relative insulation from global banking turmoil are two that instantly come to mind. I hate the banks as much as any red blooded Canadian but it's important to remember that our system is the envy of many other countries. It's with good reason that the former Bank of Canada governor (Mark Carney) was recruited to head up the Bank of England and also serves as the chairman of the G20's Financial Stability Board.
dghughes 10y ago
A few years ago TD Bank Canada changed its TD Bank branded debit cards to a Visa branded debit cards it wasn't before that just an Interac logo no Visa affiliation. I don't know why TD Bank did it but it's now linked to Visa and it seemed rather sudden. I wonder if that means my TD Bank Visa brand debit card won't work or if it's only Visa credit cards?
- marxidad 10y ago
  TD Canada Trust Access cards use Interac for in-person sales in Canada and Visa Debit for on-line and international sales.
  - DKnoll 10y ago
    Well, it can be used as a credit card for online purchases. You can also use Interac Online with it for Canadian online merchants, which there are relatively few of.

by mabbo 10y ago

justin66 10y ago

What distinction are you drawing to the debit cards that banks in the US issue with the visa or MasterCard logo?

ForHackernews 10y ago
In some countries, there exist electronic payment processing networks other than Visa/Mastercard.
- justin66 10y ago
  And those countries include the United States. No idea why that's relevant.
  - ForHackernews 10y ago
    I'm not sure what extremely pedantic point you're trying to make. The relevance of the parent you responded to is that a Canadian shop not accepting Visa (or Mastercard) is only a very mild inconvenience because there are other widely used payment networks.
    - justin66 10y ago
      I'm not sure what got so complicated about this question, but I was wondering what the person initially responded to here was talking about: in Canada (actually, pretty much everywhere but America) since the systems sound pretty identical.
      - ForHackernews 10y ago
        I don't see what you're not understanding. If you live in America, then surely you are aware that Visa + Mastercard are overwhelmingly dominant as payment networks, yes? Obviously Discover, Amex and Diner's Club exist, but they are barely worth mentioning. Hardly anyone (proportionally) carries those cards, and only a few merchants accept them. In the United States, for a merchant to refuse Visa would be suicidal. In Canada, it's almost a non-issue because all the debit cards are processed on another, non-Visa network. What of the above do you disagree with?
MustardTiger 10y ago
It isn't affiliated with visa or mastercard at all. It is called interac. It is not a special debit card, it is just your normal bank card.
- kahnpro 10y ago
  In fact, they are in competition, Interac is trying to keep things like Visa Debit out if the country. My bank card now is both an Interac card and a Visa Debit card. But the Visa Debit part work anywhere except online US retailers.
- justin66 10y ago
  Remove "visa" and "mastercard" from the comment I made and the question still stands.
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    Remove "visa" and "mastercard" and I still answered your question. It is not through credit card payment processing.

Symbiote 10y ago

Everywhere but America? My British debit cards use either the Visa or Mastercard network. My Danish one does too, though it also uses the local Dankort network if available.

mabbo 10y ago
Really? When I lived in Britain 6 years ago my debit card had no credit card affiliation, didn't see any that did.
- thesimon 10y ago
  Probably back in day the card used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card) A few years ago the pinguins took over (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x48eLs8tnJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x48eLs8tnJo) and basically every card in the UK is now either Visa/MasterCard/Amex and very few Maestro.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    Ah. That explains why when my Maestro card expired, it was replaced with a Visa Debit card. The latter is more widely accepted for online shopping (only some merchants accept Maestro, whereas everyone accepts Visa and Visa Debit usually works there), so I was happy.
- akhatri_aus 10y ago
  The cards have Visa or Mastercard on them but can fall back to use the debit card network by asking you which account to pay with. The merchant can also disable you from selecting 'credit' while paying to force it to use the debit network. Its also like this in Australia. Very few banks still issue debit only cards (Switch/Maestro), they do if you ask for them, but they mostly only work at the ATM.
  - Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
    > asking you which account to pay with This never happens in the UK. It confuses the heck out of me in countries where it does (e.g. New Zealand).

douche 10y ago

Except its still a debit card, with all of the problems of debit cards, and none of the additional protections you get from using a credit card. Somebody steals your credit card and goes on a spree? Call your bank, dispute the charges, and life goes on. Somebody steals your debit card? Good luck, money is gone from your bank account, and BTW, your mortgage and auto payments just bounced, so we're going to tack on some overdraft fees too. Have a nice day.

peeters 10y ago
> Somebody steals your debit card? Good luck, money is gone from your bank account I had $4000 stolen from my bank account via a compromised debit card. The charges were reversed the same day. The bank is still liable for fraudulent transactions if you didn't authorize them.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  It's a classic case of who is carrying the burden. With credit it's he bank. Fine show my account balance 4k high, I refuse to pay my bill. Same thing with debit and it's my cash missing, and I need to go through a dance to get my own cash back. In fact just had a CC stolen last week. No harm to me because I wasn't holding the burden. I refuse to use my debit card for anything but at an ATM.
  - theonemind 10y ago
    My bank issued me a debit/ATM card by default. I asked, and they replaced it with a plain ATM card that's not a debit card. They also had this insecure-dy-default behavior allowing checking account overdraws to start pulling out of savings. It's worth checking that setting, too.
    - jdeibele 10y ago
      I was interested to read in the comments on a different topic that businesses typically have a deposit-only account, a withdrawals-only account and an account in the middle. As a family, we set up an extra account at Schwab to write checks and do automatic payments against. There wasn't any additional cost to us - having some money sitting in the account is hardly worth worrying about with what Schwab (or anyone else) pays in interest. The big benefit to me is that the account doesn't have over-draft protections. I have to manually move money into the account from a different account where paychecks, etc. go into. That account can't write checks, etc. If our account is compromised, well, we lose (temporarily, I hope) what's in there but not the cash that accumulates to pay for property taxes, etc.

the_watcher 10y ago

> It's just Walmart annoying their customers to try to prove some point to Visa. What? It's very, very clear that this is about fees.

criddell 10y ago

Is this only for VISA credit cards, or would debit cards with the VISA logo also be affected?

stormbrew 10y ago
Canadian visa debits are still interac cards, and most retailers in Canada have their machines set up to only allow treating them as such (because fees). This is actually a bit annoying when the interac network is down, but not the credit card network.

chrismaeda 10y ago

In Canada, debit transactions are run through the Interac network, which is a non-profit set up by the Canadian banks. Interac also has an email money transfer service which is widely used. Canadian banking is different from everywhere because the market is protected from foreign competition. It makes Canadian bank stocks good to own, but makes banking expensive and annoying for Canadians.

mthoms 10y ago
All true, but the system arguably has some important advantages. The rate of tech adoption (e.g. Interac) and the relative insulation from global banking turmoil are two that instantly come to mind. I hate the banks as much as any red blooded Canadian but it's important to remember that our system is the envy of many other countries. It's with good reason that the former Bank of Canada governor (Mark Carney) was recruited to head up the Bank of England and also serves as the chairman of the G20's Financial Stability Board.

dghughes 10y ago

A few years ago TD Bank Canada changed its TD Bank branded debit cards to a Visa branded debit cards it wasn't before that just an Interac logo no Visa affiliation. I don't know why TD Bank did it but it's now linked to Visa and it seemed rather sudden. I wonder if that means my TD Bank Visa brand debit card won't work or if it's only Visa credit cards?

marxidad 10y ago
TD Canada Trust Access cards use Interac for in-person sales in Canada and Visa Debit for on-line and international sales.
- DKnoll 10y ago
  Well, it can be used as a credit card for online purchases. You can also use Interac Online with it for Canadian online merchants, which there are relatively few of.