9 ms·

Gross.

mynegation 10y ago
I understand your sentiment. I did not mean to glorify objectification of women with this story. Just something mildly funny that happened almost two decades ago, in a country without a strong tradition of feminism, to a 17-year old me who did not know any better then.
- xiphias 10y ago
  How can an virtual object (a photo of a woman seen on a monitor) be objectified? The model meant that photo to be used as an object (looked at). If she wanted people to understand her personality more, she would have just written a book.
  - spiderfarmer 10y ago
    Exactly. It's strange that in a country where lots of girls, by choice, pose near nude for Instagram selfies, a couple of programmers feel the need to excuse themselves for looking at a picture of a professional model. This brand of feminism forgets that men have dicks that they want use, and that women generally like the idea that they have the power to create some bulge.
  - startling 10y ago
    These are the kinds of things, specifically, that gross me out about this story: (from http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment) * In geek contexts, they are usually a way for heterosexual men to bond over their common attraction to women. This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man, including, obviously, women, and contributes to their invisibility in the field. This sensation of exclusion is very visceral when in a small minority, as women can be in geek settings. * There is a long tradition of sexual images, suggestions and approaches being used to shame, scare, harrass or brutalise women. This is common enough that most women will have had personal experience of it. Therefore many women are unable to sensibly assume good faith on the part of unknown men seeking to make a situation sexual and feel mentally uncomfortable at best and physically intimidated often. * While in many areas this restriction is loosening, women are stigmatised as well as celebrated for being too sexual. This traps women into a double bind when responding to sexualized environments, because even by getting the joke they may reveal themselves as too sexual. Keep in mind the commenter received extra points for this.
    - derefr 10y ago
      > This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man Except, you know, for bisexual men and women, lesbians, heterosexual trans-men, and so on. A lot of people could theoretically bond with one-another over a shared attraction to a given gender. (Not making any point to the spirit of your argument; just poking at the letter of it in hope that you refine it.)
      - startling 10y ago
        > A lot of people could theoretically bond with one-another over a shared attraction to a given gender. OK? That's not what's happening here.
        derefr 10y ago
        The point you were making wasn't about what was or wasn't happening here, though; it was about what such statements "usually [serve to do] ... in geek contexts." Geek contexts involve a lot of the types of people I mentioned. (For example, according to a recent survey of LessWrong members, there are actually more transwomen than ciswomen in that community.)
        startling 10y ago
        The full quote: > In geek contexts, they are usually a way for heterosexual men to bond over their common attraction to women. This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man, including, obviously, women, and contributes to their invisibility in the field. There's nothing here suggesting that that shared sexuality can't be used as a bonding mechanism among other groups. Just that in "geek contexts" it's usually intended as a bonding mechanism between straight men, and that this is othering to people who aren't straight men.
    - spiderfarmer 10y ago
      This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man I disagree. Women look at other women as well. It's very natural to feel excluded when groups of people over something you don't get excited about, whatever the subject. If, for example, people can contain their excitement about Magic cards when I'm around, I'm fine. There is a long tradition of sexual images, suggestions and approaches being used to shame, scare, harrass or brutalise women. Yeah, so a picture of a professional model is something completely different. You are dragging this point into the discussion but it doesn't add anything. ...they may reveal themselves as too sexual. Just bring it back to basics. Men have dicks they want to use, women want to be admired. If people could just respect eachother while taking these basic needs into account, everyone would be fine. -- I am happy that people here in the Netherlands are so much more tolerant when it comes down to things like sexuality, public intimicy and nudity. It seems to me that in the US people get offended very easily and want to limit another persons freedom of expression just so that they can be offended a little bit less.
mozumder 10y ago
Completely inappropriate comment.
bitshiftthis 10y ago
Is this a joke post lol? Grow up kid. This isn't even remotely offensive.

Gross.

I understand your sentiment. I did not mean to glorify objectification of women with this story. Just something mildly funny that happened almost two decades ago, in a country without a strong tradition of feminism, to a 17-year old me who did not know any better then.

xiphias 10y ago
How can an virtual object (a photo of a woman seen on a monitor) be objectified? The model meant that photo to be used as an object (looked at). If she wanted people to understand her personality more, she would have just written a book.
- spiderfarmer 10y ago
  Exactly. It's strange that in a country where lots of girls, by choice, pose near nude for Instagram selfies, a couple of programmers feel the need to excuse themselves for looking at a picture of a professional model. This brand of feminism forgets that men have dicks that they want use, and that women generally like the idea that they have the power to create some bulge.
- startling 10y ago
  These are the kinds of things, specifically, that gross me out about this story: (from http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment) * In geek contexts, they are usually a way for heterosexual men to bond over their common attraction to women. This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man, including, obviously, women, and contributes to their invisibility in the field. This sensation of exclusion is very visceral when in a small minority, as women can be in geek settings. * There is a long tradition of sexual images, suggestions and approaches being used to shame, scare, harrass or brutalise women. This is common enough that most women will have had personal experience of it. Therefore many women are unable to sensibly assume good faith on the part of unknown men seeking to make a situation sexual and feel mentally uncomfortable at best and physically intimidated often. * While in many areas this restriction is loosening, women are stigmatised as well as celebrated for being too sexual. This traps women into a double bind when responding to sexualized environments, because even by getting the joke they may reveal themselves as too sexual. Keep in mind the commenter received extra points for this.
  - derefr 10y ago
    > This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man Except, you know, for bisexual men and women, lesbians, heterosexual trans-men, and so on. A lot of people could theoretically bond with one-another over a shared attraction to a given gender. (Not making any point to the spirit of your argument; just poking at the letter of it in hope that you refine it.)
    - startling 10y ago
      > A lot of people could theoretically bond with one-another over a shared attraction to a given gender. OK? That's not what's happening here.
      - derefr 10y ago
        The point you were making wasn't about what was or wasn't happening here, though; it was about what such statements "usually [serve to do] ... in geek contexts." Geek contexts involve a lot of the types of people I mentioned. (For example, according to a recent survey of LessWrong members, there are actually more transwomen than ciswomen in that community.)
        startling 10y ago
        The full quote: > In geek contexts, they are usually a way for heterosexual men to bond over their common attraction to women. This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man, including, obviously, women, and contributes to their invisibility in the field. There's nothing here suggesting that that shared sexuality can't be used as a bonding mechanism among other groups. Just that in "geek contexts" it's usually intended as a bonding mechanism between straight men, and that this is othering to people who aren't straight men.
  - spiderfarmer 10y ago
    This is othering for anyone who is not a heterosexual man I disagree. Women look at other women as well. It's very natural to feel excluded when groups of people over something you don't get excited about, whatever the subject. If, for example, people can contain their excitement about Magic cards when I'm around, I'm fine. There is a long tradition of sexual images, suggestions and approaches being used to shame, scare, harrass or brutalise women. Yeah, so a picture of a professional model is something completely different. You are dragging this point into the discussion but it doesn't add anything. ...they may reveal themselves as too sexual. Just bring it back to basics. Men have dicks they want to use, women want to be admired. If people could just respect eachother while taking these basic needs into account, everyone would be fine. -- I am happy that people here in the Netherlands are so much more tolerant when it comes down to things like sexuality, public intimicy and nudity. It seems to me that in the US people get offended very easily and want to limit another persons freedom of expression just so that they can be offended a little bit less.

mozumder 10y ago

Completely inappropriate comment.

bitshiftthis 10y ago

Is this a joke post lol? Grow up kid. This isn't even remotely offensive.