5 ms·

This is something that needs to be addressed. We are becoming more secular over time, but we aren't replacing the communities that churches create with secular

by xj9 10y ago

This is something that needs to be addressed. We are becoming more secular over time, but we aren't replacing the communities that churches create with secular equivalents, at least not on the same scale. Feeling connected is important, we really need to work on that.

protomyth 10y ago
I doubt we will since it would take a common belief that emphasizes charity and group togetherness. The most interesting secular meeting place is McDonalds for a lot of older people. Its cheap and you can often sit there a while, but McDonalds doesn't really have an equivalent of the local preacher.
- jmspring 10y ago
  Or Taco Bell or whatever local cheap eatery is in the local neighborhood.
  - wallflower 10y ago
    "When many lower-income Americans feel isolated and empty, they yearn for physical social networks. All across US, this happens organically at McDonald's" https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/08/mcdonalds-community-centers-us-physical-social-networks https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/08/mcdonalds-c...
  - hueving 10y ago
    McDonald's has something particularly attractive about it to older folks though. Might be nostalgia since it was the first big fast food thing, or maybe it's just cheap coffee. Not sure, but the one near me always has a couple of groups of old folks chatting there at 7-10am on sundays.
50CNT 10y ago
Germany has the Vereinswesen, which are small clubs around a common hobby (such as shooting, football, gymnastics, orchestra, basketball, etc.) that are usually part of a larger Verband, which may be state or country-wide like the DFB (German Football Federation), the DBB (German Basketball Federation), DSB (German Shooting and Archery Federation), or the BDMV (Association of German Music Societies). That could be a model.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  And it is in many countries, but for some reason the U.S. doesn't seem to work that way. I was a bit surprised when my son spent a year in high school in the U.S. and I found out how youth football (soccer) system works there. Over here in Europe, we have a plethora of local clubs that collect the young and old to train and play, and to work together to organise everything, fund it, and so on. In the U.S. the football (again, soccer) seems to be predominantly organised by schools, and a very small part of players belong to actual soccer clubs. I understand the same is true with other sports (American football, baseball, basketball, etc). Similarly we have lots of clubs that arrange things like music and orchestra trainings for youth, whereas in the U.S. this is also organized around schools. This is good in many ways - for instance, the integration of activities to the school day helps it for kids - but at the same time, it makes the school's "quality" (in terms of what the teachers and staff are like and what kind of parents the children have) all so important. If the school fails, then everything will. And if you don't have kids at school, can you really contribute to the community in the same way as a seasoned football veteran can in a local club?
  - flamedoge 10y ago
    meetup.com seems to be alive in every city....
    - elcapitan 10y ago
      How is the target audience for Meetup elsewhere? I live in Berlin and I noticed that it's almost exclusively developers (which is fun, but sometimes weird - I went to a street cycling meetup and everybody else was a dev too). Maybe the dominance of German clubs in organized leisure is the reason for that.
      - raverbashing 10y ago
        Because meetup.com is what the expat nerds know I've given up on it though sometimes you find something "outside of the circle" It's like craigslist in Berlin: there are only scams because Americans think it works the same as in the US, when Germans have never even heard of it
bufordsharkley 10y ago
I work at a community radio station, and I definitely see this as filling the void in my life that a community church serves for others (and for us, music is quite literally a religion). I wonder how many people can answer yes to the questions: 1. Do you believe there is something out there bigger than yourself? 2. Do you interface with others in your community, connected in some fashion to this Greater Power? I feel lucky to have this community radio, I wonder what other examples people have out there.
ThrustVectoring 10y ago
That's a large part of why I'm into social dancing.
- hueving 10y ago
  Is there such a thing as anti-social dancing?
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    Dancing alone in your living room, I suppose.
  - Legogris 10y ago
    Ever been to a psytrance rave? Lots of people are go there with minimum social interaction and are there purely for dancing to the music in their on bubble.
    - xor-xor 10y ago
      > Ever been to a psytrance rave? [...] ...or silent disco. BTW, there's a great movie "Lobster" [1], where this "anti-social dance" phenomenon is hilariously portrayed in one of the scenes. Highly recommended. [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3464902/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3464902/
  - ThrustVectoring 10y ago
    "Social" refers to the fact that it's more about experiencing a dance, rather than performing to an audience. Lindy hop, swing, blues, contra, and contact improv would all count here. Ballet, breakdancing, mime, and tap would not.
f_allwein 10y ago
In the UK, there is Sunday Assembly, a secular community that otherwise resembles church: https://www.sundayassembly.com https://www.sundayassembly.com
- mercer 10y ago
  My experience with the Sunday Assembly in my area was that it was really nice, but a pale comparison of the church life I had experienced. I wish I knew what the missing element was, but I'm afraid a big part of it is the opt-in nature. It's like the difference between a good family and a good group of friends. The former is held together not just based on a desire to be together, but (usually) also on a sense of obligation/duty or even deeply held belief.
  - f_allwein 10y ago
    Good point - I've been planning to go again for a while, but never do...

by xj9 10y ago

protomyth 10y ago

I doubt we will since it would take a common belief that emphasizes charity and group togetherness. The most interesting secular meeting place is McDonalds for a lot of older people. Its cheap and you can often sit there a while, but McDonalds doesn't really have an equivalent of the local preacher.

jmspring 10y ago
Or Taco Bell or whatever local cheap eatery is in the local neighborhood.
- wallflower 10y ago
  "When many lower-income Americans feel isolated and empty, they yearn for physical social networks. All across US, this happens organically at McDonald's" https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/08/mcdonalds-community-centers-us-physical-social-networks https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/08/mcdonalds-c...
- hueving 10y ago
  McDonald's has something particularly attractive about it to older folks though. Might be nostalgia since it was the first big fast food thing, or maybe it's just cheap coffee. Not sure, but the one near me always has a couple of groups of old folks chatting there at 7-10am on sundays.

50CNT 10y ago

Germany has the Vereinswesen, which are small clubs around a common hobby (such as shooting, football, gymnastics, orchestra, basketball, etc.) that are usually part of a larger Verband, which may be state or country-wide like the DFB (German Football Federation), the DBB (German Basketball Federation), DSB (German Shooting and Archery Federation), or the BDMV (Association of German Music Societies). That could be a model.

ptaipale 10y ago
And it is in many countries, but for some reason the U.S. doesn't seem to work that way. I was a bit surprised when my son spent a year in high school in the U.S. and I found out how youth football (soccer) system works there. Over here in Europe, we have a plethora of local clubs that collect the young and old to train and play, and to work together to organise everything, fund it, and so on. In the U.S. the football (again, soccer) seems to be predominantly organised by schools, and a very small part of players belong to actual soccer clubs. I understand the same is true with other sports (American football, baseball, basketball, etc). Similarly we have lots of clubs that arrange things like music and orchestra trainings for youth, whereas in the U.S. this is also organized around schools. This is good in many ways - for instance, the integration of activities to the school day helps it for kids - but at the same time, it makes the school's "quality" (in terms of what the teachers and staff are like and what kind of parents the children have) all so important. If the school fails, then everything will. And if you don't have kids at school, can you really contribute to the community in the same way as a seasoned football veteran can in a local club?
- flamedoge 10y ago
  meetup.com seems to be alive in every city....
  - elcapitan 10y ago
    How is the target audience for Meetup elsewhere? I live in Berlin and I noticed that it's almost exclusively developers (which is fun, but sometimes weird - I went to a street cycling meetup and everybody else was a dev too). Maybe the dominance of German clubs in organized leisure is the reason for that.
    - raverbashing 10y ago
      Because meetup.com is what the expat nerds know I've given up on it though sometimes you find something "outside of the circle" It's like craigslist in Berlin: there are only scams because Americans think it works the same as in the US, when Germans have never even heard of it

bufordsharkley 10y ago

I work at a community radio station, and I definitely see this as filling the void in my life that a community church serves for others (and for us, music is quite literally a religion). I wonder how many people can answer yes to the questions: 1. Do you believe there is something out there bigger than yourself? 2. Do you interface with others in your community, connected in some fashion to this Greater Power? I feel lucky to have this community radio, I wonder what other examples people have out there.

ThrustVectoring 10y ago

That's a large part of why I'm into social dancing.

hueving 10y ago
Is there such a thing as anti-social dancing?
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  Dancing alone in your living room, I suppose.
- Legogris 10y ago
  Ever been to a psytrance rave? Lots of people are go there with minimum social interaction and are there purely for dancing to the music in their on bubble.
  - xor-xor 10y ago
    > Ever been to a psytrance rave? [...] ...or silent disco. BTW, there's a great movie "Lobster" [1], where this "anti-social dance" phenomenon is hilariously portrayed in one of the scenes. Highly recommended. [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3464902/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3464902/
- ThrustVectoring 10y ago
  "Social" refers to the fact that it's more about experiencing a dance, rather than performing to an audience. Lindy hop, swing, blues, contra, and contact improv would all count here. Ballet, breakdancing, mime, and tap would not.

f_allwein 10y ago

In the UK, there is Sunday Assembly, a secular community that otherwise resembles church: https://www.sundayassembly.com https://www.sundayassembly.com

mercer 10y ago
My experience with the Sunday Assembly in my area was that it was really nice, but a pale comparison of the church life I had experienced. I wish I knew what the missing element was, but I'm afraid a big part of it is the opt-in nature. It's like the difference between a good family and a good group of friends. The former is held together not just based on a desire to be together, but (usually) also on a sense of obligation/duty or even deeply held belief.
- f_allwein 10y ago
  Good point - I've been planning to go again for a while, but never do...