7 ms·

Firstly, I think this is a fascinating subject that isn't discussed on HN enough. A lot of friends of mine have multiple citizenships, so this is an interesting

Firstly, I think this is a fascinating subject that isn't discussed on HN enough. A lot of friends of mine have multiple citizenships, so this is an interesting subject for me personally. I know two people with dual Russian-US nationalities, which they both loudly proclaim to be the best. I also know a number of people with dual European-US citizenships, and a handful of people who have a smaller non-EU country and a US citizenship. I also know some people who only have just one smaller non-EU country's citizenship. I've personally had the discussion several times about what the best citizenships to hold are. Some people I know are wealthy enough that they could simply afford to purchase additional citizenships; some are undocumented in their country of residence and holding even dual citizenship is only a dream. I'm personally of the opinion that there are a few "classes" of passports: European, American, Russian, South American, and everyone else. Russian, because it allows you free travel between the former Soviet states; European and American for obvious reasons, and South American because most South American countries permit free travel with citizenship. Less commonly known passports I have special love for are the Chilean passport and the Dutch passport (which I have). The Dutch passport because it is very difficult to obtain (and requires you to give up all other citizenships unless obtained by birth), and the Chilean one because it is the only passport to allow free travel to all G8 countries. It's also interesting to watch how the Syrian passport fell from "medium quality", relatively close to high quality, to the fourth worst passport ranked. In the same time, only a few countries fell positions: El Salvador went from high quality to medium quality, and the Congo went from medium to low quality. For those in the thread asking for a copy of the 2016 report: https://www.henleyglobal.com/files/download/HP/hvri/HP%20Visa%20Restrictions%20Index%20160223.pdf https://www.henleyglobal.com/files/download/HP/hvri/HP%20Vis...

eru 10y ago
Doesn't an American passport make you liable to American taxes worldwide? (I guess, if you are rich enough, your accountants can deal with that..)
- owenversteeg 10y ago
  Yes, unfortunately the US is one of the few countries to do anything like this. Thankfully, you can exclude up to around $90k of earned income per year from taxes, and there are programs in place to give tax credits when you go over this limit and pay double taxes. Of course, you end up paying more, but it's not usually double.
  - brobinson 10y ago
    The additional tax paperwork/filing burden and the fact that very few banks overseas will open a bank account for a US citizen (due to FATCA) are still not worth it for a lot of people.
    - danjayh 10y ago
      Had no idea about FATCA. Absolutely insane government overstep. To impose such a costly burden on financial institutions worldwide, to make Americans a liability to those host countries, and all for such little gain ... it boggles the mind. And the fact that it's been in place for 6 years - the Obama administration must have started planning it almost as soon as they came to power, and they've had so much time to see the inefficiency of it and the negative effects, and still they haven't made a move to reverse it. Totally nuts.
      - eru 10y ago
        Planning might have started in the previous administration.
- simonebrunozzi 10y ago
  Yes, it does. This is the main reason why I am considering NOT getting my US citizenship in a couple years when time comes.
  - eru 10y ago
    The main upside I see to American citizenship, if you otherwise have access to a first-world citizenship, is access to the US labour market.
Teever 10y ago
I would think that Canadian and German passport would be quite excellent. Canadian because it gives you access to free healthcare and the United States, as well as visa free entry to so many countries and the German one gives you all of the EU. I knew a person with Canadian, Swiss, and New Zealand -- now that's an awesome combination.
- garrettgrimsley 10y ago
  I'm more interested in which passport adds the most most visa free travel to a given passport. Maybe Russia would be best given a US passport, since Canada/USA/Germany are sure to have a great deal of overlap. You can take the set difference of the passport you have and all of the candidate passports. Whichever candidate yields the set with the highest cardinality is the passport to pursue.
- sdm 10y ago
  Canadian passport does not give you free healthcare; it is completely unconnected with citizenship. Health care, like most thing, is the responsibility of the provincial governments. You have to be a resident of a province for a period of time, usually 6 months, to get free healthcare in that province. Provinces do cover out of province travel and some limited international travel though usually not the US -- but that all varies by province. If you are a non-resident Canadian citizen, you will not be covered and have to pay full even if you are treated in Canada. For example, if you move to the Bay area for work, go home at christmas and break your leg, you will be out of pocket the total costs. However, if you a resident non-citizen (i.e., PR, TFW, Student), you will be covered after your residency is established.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    It's 3 months for Quebec and 153 days for Ontario http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/ http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/
    - codexjourneys 10y ago
rdtsc 10y ago
> I have special love for are the Chilean passport and the Dutch passport (which I have) [...] The Dutch passport because it is very difficult to obtain (and requires you to give up all other citizenships unless obtained by birth) Ok, but, aside from being hard to get what other benefits would it have say over a German or other European one?
- roel_v 10y ago
  None. I have two EU nationalities and apart from this way having the same nationalities my children have, there is no advantage.
  - mercer 10y ago
    That's not entirely true, at least according to this website: https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php I haven't looked in the specifics of how the rankings come about, but clearly there are difference between EU passports that have some meaning.
    - rdtsc 10y ago
      As a first guess is because some of the European countries had/have colonies (the Dutch did). That opens the door to various countries, sometimes to tax havens.
- owenversteeg 10y ago
  Dutch citizens can travel easier through China, Israel, and Mozambique; they also do not need a visa when traveling through significantly more parts of China. German citizens can travel easier to Mongolia and Vietnam, but can only stay for 15 days there. I personally think that this makes the Dutch passport stronger, but someone who wanted to spend a short amount of time in Vietnam would disagree. Basically, the only thing making the German passport "the best in the world" over the Dutch one is being able to travel easier to Mongolia and Vietnam, even though they can only stay for 15 days. For practical purposes, I definitely think the Dutch passport is better. To each their own, however.

eru 10y ago

Doesn't an American passport make you liable to American taxes worldwide? (I guess, if you are rich enough, your accountants can deal with that..)

owenversteeg 10y ago
Yes, unfortunately the US is one of the few countries to do anything like this. Thankfully, you can exclude up to around $90k of earned income per year from taxes, and there are programs in place to give tax credits when you go over this limit and pay double taxes. Of course, you end up paying more, but it's not usually double.
- brobinson 10y ago
  The additional tax paperwork/filing burden and the fact that very few banks overseas will open a bank account for a US citizen (due to FATCA) are still not worth it for a lot of people.
  - danjayh 10y ago
    Had no idea about FATCA. Absolutely insane government overstep. To impose such a costly burden on financial institutions worldwide, to make Americans a liability to those host countries, and all for such little gain ... it boggles the mind. And the fact that it's been in place for 6 years - the Obama administration must have started planning it almost as soon as they came to power, and they've had so much time to see the inefficiency of it and the negative effects, and still they haven't made a move to reverse it. Totally nuts.
    - eru 10y ago
      Planning might have started in the previous administration.
simonebrunozzi 10y ago
Yes, it does. This is the main reason why I am considering NOT getting my US citizenship in a couple years when time comes.
- eru 10y ago
  The main upside I see to American citizenship, if you otherwise have access to a first-world citizenship, is access to the US labour market.

Teever 10y ago

I would think that Canadian and German passport would be quite excellent. Canadian because it gives you access to free healthcare and the United States, as well as visa free entry to so many countries and the German one gives you all of the EU. I knew a person with Canadian, Swiss, and New Zealand -- now that's an awesome combination.

garrettgrimsley 10y ago
I'm more interested in which passport adds the most most visa free travel to a given passport. Maybe Russia would be best given a US passport, since Canada/USA/Germany are sure to have a great deal of overlap. You can take the set difference of the passport you have and all of the candidate passports. Whichever candidate yields the set with the highest cardinality is the passport to pursue.
sdm 10y ago
Canadian passport does not give you free healthcare; it is completely unconnected with citizenship. Health care, like most thing, is the responsibility of the provincial governments. You have to be a resident of a province for a period of time, usually 6 months, to get free healthcare in that province. Provinces do cover out of province travel and some limited international travel though usually not the US -- but that all varies by province. If you are a non-resident Canadian citizen, you will not be covered and have to pay full even if you are treated in Canada. For example, if you move to the Bay area for work, go home at christmas and break your leg, you will be out of pocket the total costs. However, if you a resident non-citizen (i.e., PR, TFW, Student), you will be covered after your residency is established.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  It's 3 months for Quebec and 153 days for Ontario http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/ http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/
  - codexjourneys 10y ago

rdtsc 10y ago

> I have special love for are the Chilean passport and the Dutch passport (which I have) [...] The Dutch passport because it is very difficult to obtain (and requires you to give up all other citizenships unless obtained by birth) Ok, but, aside from being hard to get what other benefits would it have say over a German or other European one?

roel_v 10y ago
None. I have two EU nationalities and apart from this way having the same nationalities my children have, there is no advantage.
- mercer 10y ago
  That's not entirely true, at least according to this website: https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php I haven't looked in the specifics of how the rankings come about, but clearly there are difference between EU passports that have some meaning.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    As a first guess is because some of the European countries had/have colonies (the Dutch did). That opens the door to various countries, sometimes to tax havens.
owenversteeg 10y ago
Dutch citizens can travel easier through China, Israel, and Mozambique; they also do not need a visa when traveling through significantly more parts of China. German citizens can travel easier to Mongolia and Vietnam, but can only stay for 15 days there. I personally think that this makes the Dutch passport stronger, but someone who wanted to spend a short amount of time in Vietnam would disagree. Basically, the only thing making the German passport "the best in the world" over the Dutch one is being able to travel easier to Mongolia and Vietnam, even though they can only stay for 15 days. For practical purposes, I definitely think the Dutch passport is better. To each their own, however.