5 ms·

So, what part of this seems surprising, bad, unusual, etc from a western/USA perspective? Sleeping in public, sleeping on a train, napping whenever? The fact

by Artlav 10y ago

So, what part of this seems surprising, bad, unusual, etc from a western/USA perspective? Sleeping in public, sleeping on a train, napping whenever? The fact of time management that puts you into position that require such naps? Or something else? The article implies, but it's not clear for me on what.

franciscop 10y ago
I love the Japanese culture and I've lived there for a while. Personally, what most shocked me is how accepted and common this is. To the point that when I friend came to study to Spain she asked me: "Why is no one sleeping in the library?" On the other side, I believe it's also dangerous. I visited Malaysia with my gf, and she would fall asleep in every train and taxi because it's just what they do.
- GreaterFool 10y ago
  I live in Tokyo and I think it's great. You can often see people at McDonalds early in the morning after a night out catching a nap before the trains start running. Just buy a coffee or something, grab a table, take an hour nap -- great. And this is Japan so you don't have to worry about your stuff getting stolen! Even if you sleep at the train station! I also commonly see people taking naps during lunchtime in Starbucks. Someone will come in, grab a coffee, take a nap for 30 min, drink the coffee and go back to work. There's nothing wrong with that! (other than I want the table :P) Unfortunately the corporate culture is not where it should be. There are some companies that want to be like western startups where taking a nap on the office sofa wouldn't raise an eyebrow but those are very rare. In most Japanese companies it would be totally unacceptable to sleep in the office.
  - eddz 10y ago
    I have worked in several office environments in Japan where coworkers have frequently napped at their desks.
    - msbarnett 10y ago
      Right, but as the article points out, that's socially different. Working at your desk and succumbing to sleep is tolerated whereas stretching out on the couch with the intent to sleep is not.
      - eddz 10y ago
        I have also observed this behaviour, especially from higher ranking employees.
    - sevensor 10y ago
      Saw this often at the chaebol I worked for -- I think Korean work / nap culture is similar.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Having a broken work/life balance is "great"? They're cultures that you can see "see people at McDonalds early in the morning after a night out" all the time, without having to go there directly from working late...
    - GreaterFool 10y ago
      No, you are taking "great" out of context. It is great that you can safely take a nap in a public space without fear of being robbed or worse (as one would have to fear outside Japan), without having police called on you, and with general public acceptance of such action. Nobody will think you're a bum or a mad or look at you funny. Try that somewhere else and let's see what happens! Japanese corporate culture is terrible and that is sad. I don't have an answer to that.
    - jlg23 10y ago
      > Having a broken work/life balance is "great"? Broken according to which cultural paradigms? Just because we have different ideas in the west does not make them better.
  - pm90 10y ago
    This is really great. I wish we could have a similar amount of trust in all countries but it seems rather unlikely. In all the coffeeshops in Austin, Texas at least, I've seen baristas wake up customers who are napping. But I understand why they do that: there are many homeless people around and if anyone could just take naps...
chippy 10y ago
The article frequently makes it clear, I thought, that it was napping in social situations. In the workplace, in a meeting, at a conference, during a school lesson, out with your friends in a restaurant. That is surprising, unusual and often seen as being bad.
- Artlav 10y ago
  So the key phrase is "explicitly socially acceptable"? I often see people napping in all of the above, both here in Russia, around Eastern Europe and in South America. And it's no big deal most of the times. And things like sleeping on the bus/train or sitting on a bench seem to be normal all over the world. The catch is, i never been to either Japan or USA, so i can't set the zero properly.
  - allannienhuis 10y ago
    In my experience in most parts of the USA and Canada at least (and I'd guess in many places in Northern Europe), napping in public places is frowned on except in pretty specific cases - parks, beaches, etc where the purpose of being there is to relax. Of course you do see it on public transit in the early and late hours at times, and it's not a big deal, but its definitely not 'normal'. Napping at work is especially frowned upon, with perhaps the exception of someone going out to the park during lunch time. The general feeling/culture (not necessarily my personal opinion) is that you should have had enough sleep the night before so that you can be productive for the day's work. If you've stayed up so late (partying or whatever) the night before such that you need rest during the day, you're short-changing your employer and teammates. A nap might be the right thing to do to restore your energy, but you should not have put yourself in that position to start with. Of course these days I don't need to stay up half the night to feel like I need a nap in the afternoon... :) [edit] After reading the article, I see that the Japanese culture connects the tiredness with working hard/late, which changes the perception. I think in the US and Canadian culture this can happen in some extreme cases - we've all heard (or lived) stories of people working like crazy to meet project deadlines, and sleeping in the office, etc. And road-warriors fighting jet lag are often given some credit for that tired/haggard look. Blue collar workers are more prone to given respect for being particularly tired at the end of the day, but napping or dozing off is still not really rewarded/honored like it seems to be in Japan, because of the quite different work-time expectations.
kelnos 10y ago
My first reaction would be: that must be very (physically) unhealthy. But then you see that Japan's life expectancy is pretty high, around 83 years, and you wonder if it really has a negative impact. I suppose there are other measures of physical health than life expectancy, but still... In Western terms, I would say it's "bad" from a happiness/relaxation perspective. Not really from the lack of sleep; while I wouldn't say I go as far as the Japanese, I do tend to sleep less than most people... just that all the social machinations around it: e.g. "succumbing" to sleep as a measure of looking virtuous/like a hard worker in front of your peers, for example. I find things like that exhausting and the need to do that would significantly decrease my level of happiness. But that's just it: happiness is subjective. What makes me happy or unhappy need not be even remotely related to what makes someone else the same. As much as I may think it's weird or undesirable, all that really matters is that the people who live like that are happy with their lives. It's only a problem if they're not.
- Ezhik 10y ago
  Physical is one thing, but I just can't see this as being anything but devastating for people's mental health.
  - Godel_unicode 10y ago
    That type of "work hard play hard" is a pretty common pattern at universities in the US. Not necessarily all the time, but a couple times a week it can be awesome. The big caveat obviously is you have to be the usually extroverted type of person who likes to go out and get rowdy with your friends.
    - sotojuan 10y ago
      Some areas of finance in the US adhere to this as well.
    - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      >That type of "work hard play hard" is a pretty common pattern at universities in the US. Yes, but usually we assume that you stop doing that for your health's sake after you finish school.
wlievens 10y ago
Not having time left for your family? My work day is from 7:40 to 16:20 so that I can spend time with my kids.

by Artlav 10y ago

franciscop 10y ago

I love the Japanese culture and I've lived there for a while. Personally, what most shocked me is how accepted and common this is. To the point that when I friend came to study to Spain she asked me: "Why is no one sleeping in the library?" On the other side, I believe it's also dangerous. I visited Malaysia with my gf, and she would fall asleep in every train and taxi because it's just what they do.

GreaterFool 10y ago
I live in Tokyo and I think it's great. You can often see people at McDonalds early in the morning after a night out catching a nap before the trains start running. Just buy a coffee or something, grab a table, take an hour nap -- great. And this is Japan so you don't have to worry about your stuff getting stolen! Even if you sleep at the train station! I also commonly see people taking naps during lunchtime in Starbucks. Someone will come in, grab a coffee, take a nap for 30 min, drink the coffee and go back to work. There's nothing wrong with that! (other than I want the table :P) Unfortunately the corporate culture is not where it should be. There are some companies that want to be like western startups where taking a nap on the office sofa wouldn't raise an eyebrow but those are very rare. In most Japanese companies it would be totally unacceptable to sleep in the office.
- eddz 10y ago
  I have worked in several office environments in Japan where coworkers have frequently napped at their desks.
  - msbarnett 10y ago
    Right, but as the article points out, that's socially different. Working at your desk and succumbing to sleep is tolerated whereas stretching out on the couch with the intent to sleep is not.
    - eddz 10y ago
      I have also observed this behaviour, especially from higher ranking employees.
  - sevensor 10y ago
    Saw this often at the chaebol I worked for -- I think Korean work / nap culture is similar.
- coldtea 10y ago
  Having a broken work/life balance is "great"? They're cultures that you can see "see people at McDonalds early in the morning after a night out" all the time, without having to go there directly from working late...
  - GreaterFool 10y ago
    No, you are taking "great" out of context. It is great that you can safely take a nap in a public space without fear of being robbed or worse (as one would have to fear outside Japan), without having police called on you, and with general public acceptance of such action. Nobody will think you're a bum or a mad or look at you funny. Try that somewhere else and let's see what happens! Japanese corporate culture is terrible and that is sad. I don't have an answer to that.
  - jlg23 10y ago
    > Having a broken work/life balance is "great"? Broken according to which cultural paradigms? Just because we have different ideas in the west does not make them better.
- pm90 10y ago
  This is really great. I wish we could have a similar amount of trust in all countries but it seems rather unlikely. In all the coffeeshops in Austin, Texas at least, I've seen baristas wake up customers who are napping. But I understand why they do that: there are many homeless people around and if anyone could just take naps...

chippy 10y ago

The article frequently makes it clear, I thought, that it was napping in social situations. In the workplace, in a meeting, at a conference, during a school lesson, out with your friends in a restaurant. That is surprising, unusual and often seen as being bad.

Artlav 10y ago
So the key phrase is "explicitly socially acceptable"? I often see people napping in all of the above, both here in Russia, around Eastern Europe and in South America. And it's no big deal most of the times. And things like sleeping on the bus/train or sitting on a bench seem to be normal all over the world. The catch is, i never been to either Japan or USA, so i can't set the zero properly.
- allannienhuis 10y ago
  In my experience in most parts of the USA and Canada at least (and I'd guess in many places in Northern Europe), napping in public places is frowned on except in pretty specific cases - parks, beaches, etc where the purpose of being there is to relax. Of course you do see it on public transit in the early and late hours at times, and it's not a big deal, but its definitely not 'normal'. Napping at work is especially frowned upon, with perhaps the exception of someone going out to the park during lunch time. The general feeling/culture (not necessarily my personal opinion) is that you should have had enough sleep the night before so that you can be productive for the day's work. If you've stayed up so late (partying or whatever) the night before such that you need rest during the day, you're short-changing your employer and teammates. A nap might be the right thing to do to restore your energy, but you should not have put yourself in that position to start with. Of course these days I don't need to stay up half the night to feel like I need a nap in the afternoon... :) [edit] After reading the article, I see that the Japanese culture connects the tiredness with working hard/late, which changes the perception. I think in the US and Canadian culture this can happen in some extreme cases - we've all heard (or lived) stories of people working like crazy to meet project deadlines, and sleeping in the office, etc. And road-warriors fighting jet lag are often given some credit for that tired/haggard look. Blue collar workers are more prone to given respect for being particularly tired at the end of the day, but napping or dozing off is still not really rewarded/honored like it seems to be in Japan, because of the quite different work-time expectations.

kelnos 10y ago

My first reaction would be: that must be very (physically) unhealthy. But then you see that Japan's life expectancy is pretty high, around 83 years, and you wonder if it really has a negative impact. I suppose there are other measures of physical health than life expectancy, but still... In Western terms, I would say it's "bad" from a happiness/relaxation perspective. Not really from the lack of sleep; while I wouldn't say I go as far as the Japanese, I do tend to sleep less than most people... just that all the social machinations around it: e.g. "succumbing" to sleep as a measure of looking virtuous/like a hard worker in front of your peers, for example. I find things like that exhausting and the need to do that would significantly decrease my level of happiness. But that's just it: happiness is subjective. What makes me happy or unhappy need not be even remotely related to what makes someone else the same. As much as I may think it's weird or undesirable, all that really matters is that the people who live like that are happy with their lives. It's only a problem if they're not.

Ezhik 10y ago
Physical is one thing, but I just can't see this as being anything but devastating for people's mental health.
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  That type of "work hard play hard" is a pretty common pattern at universities in the US. Not necessarily all the time, but a couple times a week it can be awesome. The big caveat obviously is you have to be the usually extroverted type of person who likes to go out and get rowdy with your friends.
  - sotojuan 10y ago
    Some areas of finance in the US adhere to this as well.
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    >That type of "work hard play hard" is a pretty common pattern at universities in the US. Yes, but usually we assume that you stop doing that for your health's sake after you finish school.

wlievens 10y ago

Not having time left for your family? My work day is from 7:40 to 16:20 so that I can spend time with my kids.