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So, developers who use other systems and want to publish iOS apps are "hostile" to Apple's platform? That makes no sense. A polished iOS app with lots of users

by mkishi 10y ago

So, developers who use other systems and want to publish iOS apps are "hostile" to Apple's platform? That makes no sense. A polished iOS app with lots of users is worth much more for the whole Apple ecosystem than a few developers using OSX computers.

ryanwaggoner 10y ago
I think that if the hurdle of using OSX to develop for Apple platforms is so high to one that they'd describe it as "fundamentally developer hostile", then yes. It just doesn't make sense to me why anyone thinks they're entitled to have Apple build and support a complex developer toolchain on their platform of choice, and if Apple doesnt, it's a sign of "hostility". I don't think Apple wants that person building for their platforms. As an apple user and developer, neither do I.
- mkishi 10y ago
  > What possible benefit could there be to helping people who are hostile to their platforms develop for them? If you want to develop for Apple platforms, you do so from Apple platforms. That suggests you think every developer who wants to publish iOS apps should either do so from a Mac or they are automatically hostile towards Apple. That's the point I was touching. I personally wouldn't call Apple's choices hostile and I don't think anyone is entitled to have cross-platform tools. But you made it clear you think I'm an "enemy" as long as I'm not on a Mac, and there would be zero benefits in allowing me to publish apps to my phone. (ps. I do own a Mac)
  - ryanwaggoner 10y ago
    No, I was responding to a particular user.
kitsunesoba 10y ago
They may not be "hostile" but they are most certainly more likely to treat iOS as a second-class citizen or an afterthought, which is obviously not all that desirable. Depending on who you ask a half hearted port is worse than nothing at all. By requiring a Mac to develop for iOS, they're forcing a certain level of investment which makes it more likely that developers targeting the platform make their apps worth the time spent (for both the dev and the consumer). By opening it up they're welcoming those who port just to tick a box.
- mkishi 10y ago
  That's a much more reasonable argument. It's also likely the real reason there's no cross-development support. It does open another thread of discussion, though: as far as I'm aware, there's no proven correlation between buying a Mac and caring about the quality of your iOS product. I could just as well say that companies that want to tick a box for their sub-par apps farm invest in several platforms much more easily than starting devs who can't afford multiple setups and pride themselves in craftsmanship. Which one is closer to reality or has the bigger impact, I have no idea.
- Drakim 10y ago
  That's ridiculous. Sure, somebody who doesn't have an iPhone and yet wants to develop apps for the iPhone is likely to treat iOS as a second class citizen. But you are saying that if somebody bought the iPhone on launch date, and has upgraded to every new model as soon as it came out, and is obsessed with all things iOS....then he is still gonna treat iOS as a second-class citizen because he doesn't own a OSX and a Mac, which are different hardware and a different OS from the device he wants to make an app for?? That's crazy.

by mkishi 10y ago

ryanwaggoner 10y ago

I think that if the hurdle of using OSX to develop for Apple platforms is so high to one that they'd describe it as "fundamentally developer hostile", then yes. It just doesn't make sense to me why anyone thinks they're entitled to have Apple build and support a complex developer toolchain on their platform of choice, and if Apple doesnt, it's a sign of "hostility". I don't think Apple wants that person building for their platforms. As an apple user and developer, neither do I.

mkishi 10y ago
> What possible benefit could there be to helping people who are hostile to their platforms develop for them? If you want to develop for Apple platforms, you do so from Apple platforms. That suggests you think every developer who wants to publish iOS apps should either do so from a Mac or they are automatically hostile towards Apple. That's the point I was touching. I personally wouldn't call Apple's choices hostile and I don't think anyone is entitled to have cross-platform tools. But you made it clear you think I'm an "enemy" as long as I'm not on a Mac, and there would be zero benefits in allowing me to publish apps to my phone. (ps. I do own a Mac)
- ryanwaggoner 10y ago
  No, I was responding to a particular user.

kitsunesoba 10y ago

They may not be "hostile" but they are most certainly more likely to treat iOS as a second-class citizen or an afterthought, which is obviously not all that desirable. Depending on who you ask a half hearted port is worse than nothing at all. By requiring a Mac to develop for iOS, they're forcing a certain level of investment which makes it more likely that developers targeting the platform make their apps worth the time spent (for both the dev and the consumer). By opening it up they're welcoming those who port just to tick a box.

mkishi 10y ago
That's a much more reasonable argument. It's also likely the real reason there's no cross-development support. It does open another thread of discussion, though: as far as I'm aware, there's no proven correlation between buying a Mac and caring about the quality of your iOS product. I could just as well say that companies that want to tick a box for their sub-par apps farm invest in several platforms much more easily than starting devs who can't afford multiple setups and pride themselves in craftsmanship. Which one is closer to reality or has the bigger impact, I have no idea.
Drakim 10y ago
That's ridiculous. Sure, somebody who doesn't have an iPhone and yet wants to develop apps for the iPhone is likely to treat iOS as a second class citizen. But you are saying that if somebody bought the iPhone on launch date, and has upgraded to every new model as soon as it came out, and is obsessed with all things iOS....then he is still gonna treat iOS as a second-class citizen because he doesn't own a OSX and a Mac, which are different hardware and a different OS from the device he wants to make an app for?? That's crazy.