7 ms·

I honestly can't fathom why this question has been downvoted. It's a reasonable question, and one I share. It's a large and complicated document; there's plent

I honestly can't fathom why this question has been downvoted. It's a reasonable question, and one I share. It's a large and complicated document; there's plenty of room for bad ideas, and plenty of room for good. The real question is, "Would we rather have nothing?" Because the existing ecosystem of loosely-affiliated nation-by-nation policies is a sh-tshow.

deleted 10y ago
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izacus 10y ago
Yes, we would certanly rather have nothing. Status Quo is infinitely better than forced data transfer of our data to another nation and infinitely better than selling out IP protection to US corporation under ridiculous copyright laws.
- tptacek 10y ago
  If that's true, why does your local legislature (I don't know where you are) enable the treaty in domestic law?
  - izacus 10y ago
    It doesn't. I'm not sure why that would affect this debate at all?
    - tptacek 10y ago
      If your local legislature doesn't enable the treaty, you aren't bound by it: it isn't a part of your law. A trade treaty is essentially a promise to pass a set of laws.
      - iofj 10y ago
        Generally treaties are negotiated by the executive of a country, not the legislative force. Even in the cases where there is still a ratification step, the initiative is taken away from the legislative, and the law is written by indirectly (at best) elected commissars (in the case of the EU), rather than directly elected representatives. In the case of the EU, there isn't even a ratification step once the EU commission (which isn't elected) agrees to a treaty. And of course ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_(European_Union_law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_(European_Union_law) That means that with EU commission agreement you get the supreme court (that supersedes all local courts) arguing that anything the commission agrees to can countermand local constitutions. So local legislature agreement required, in many cases, is incorrect.
      - roel_v 10y ago
        Eh, no it isn't (necessarily). That depends on whether a certain legal system is monistic or dualistic; or rather, adheres to monistic or dualistic principles (it's not a black or white thing). Without knowing where the GP is from, you can't reasonably make any assumptions, because both are common.
forrestthewoods 10y ago
The total number of down votes I've gotten is crazy. HN sucks when you don't agree with the hivemind. It's frustrating.
- MawNicker 10y ago
  The most discouraging pattern is down-votes on reasonable comments without any feedback whatsoever. Before a person can down-vote they should be required to leave a response OR to up-vote an existing response.

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[deleted]

izacus 10y ago

Yes, we would certanly rather have nothing. Status Quo is infinitely better than forced data transfer of our data to another nation and infinitely better than selling out IP protection to US corporation under ridiculous copyright laws.

tptacek 10y ago
If that's true, why does your local legislature (I don't know where you are) enable the treaty in domestic law?
- izacus 10y ago
  It doesn't. I'm not sure why that would affect this debate at all?
  - tptacek 10y ago
    If your local legislature doesn't enable the treaty, you aren't bound by it: it isn't a part of your law. A trade treaty is essentially a promise to pass a set of laws.
    - iofj 10y ago
      Generally treaties are negotiated by the executive of a country, not the legislative force. Even in the cases where there is still a ratification step, the initiative is taken away from the legislative, and the law is written by indirectly (at best) elected commissars (in the case of the EU), rather than directly elected representatives. In the case of the EU, there isn't even a ratification step once the EU commission (which isn't elected) agrees to a treaty. And of course ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_(European_Union_law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_(European_Union_law) That means that with EU commission agreement you get the supreme court (that supersedes all local courts) arguing that anything the commission agrees to can countermand local constitutions. So local legislature agreement required, in many cases, is incorrect.
    - roel_v 10y ago
      Eh, no it isn't (necessarily). That depends on whether a certain legal system is monistic or dualistic; or rather, adheres to monistic or dualistic principles (it's not a black or white thing). Without knowing where the GP is from, you can't reasonably make any assumptions, because both are common.

forrestthewoods 10y ago

The total number of down votes I've gotten is crazy. HN sucks when you don't agree with the hivemind. It's frustrating.

MawNicker 10y ago
The most discouraging pattern is down-votes on reasonable comments without any feedback whatsoever. Before a person can down-vote they should be required to leave a response OR to up-vote an existing response.