4 ms·

I'm not advocating the celebration of the death of police officers, I'm acknowledging and lamenting that it's come to the point that a lot of people are respond

I'm not advocating the celebration of the death of police officers, I'm acknowledging and lamenting that it's come to the point that a lot of people are responding that way. It shouldn't, and we as members of society need to work towards a way that we can have lawful, trustworthy police officers again who we don't respond to with fear and hatred.

dang 10y ago
Your comment here is fine. I'm sorry I misunderstood what you meant about celebrating the death of police officers. One reason heated rhetoric is out of bounds here is that it makes such misunderstandings more likely—and also more damaging when they occur (because then people get outraged in return, and once that feedback loop gets going, nothing interrupts it). Stories like the OP upset all of us. When people come to the thread to ratchet that upsetness up even further, that succeeds, but at the wrong thing: it ignites a mob reaction. It might be good for a political rally, but it's devastating to the reflective—as opposed to reflexive—discussion that we strive for here. The motto of the Canadian senate is "sober second thought". When you consider that the opposite of sober second thought is "intemperate initial reaction", I think Hacker News could aspire worse than to be the Canadian senate of the Internet.
- pvg 10y ago
  It's nitpickery but the opposite of 'sober' in the sense used in that motto is surely not 'intoxicated'.
  - dang 10y ago
    'Sober' comes from 'ebrius', i.e. drunk. So certainly it means the opposite of drunk, something every Canadian who has heard stories about our founding prime minister will appreciate. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sober http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sober I initially had "drunken initial reaction", imagined someone taking offense at that, and changed it to "intoxicated". That was sloppy on my part—clearly it should have been 'inebriated' (same root!) But as McLuhan said, you don't like these words I got others. Let's try 'intemperate'.
    - pvg 10y ago
      That's an unreasonably literal interpretation that would suggest that, say, 'worry' is about being strangled. Words are not defined entirely and only by their original roots and this is acknowledged by dictionaries. Webster: "marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor" Or if you want to go all out, the OED "Guided by sound reason; sane, rational [...] Of the mind, discourse, etc. 1651 Hobbes Leviath. i. viii. 36 If some man in Bedlam should entertaine you with sober discourse. [...]" Hobbes likely didn't mean to say that a man confined in Bedlam was permanently drunk nor was John A. Macdonald referring to his personal preference in liquid refreshments. Edit: It occurred to me we just re-enacted this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11873985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11873985 with much more boring nicknames. McLuhan won't save you from being wrong on the internet, though!

dang 10y ago

Your comment here is fine. I'm sorry I misunderstood what you meant about celebrating the death of police officers. One reason heated rhetoric is out of bounds here is that it makes such misunderstandings more likely—and also more damaging when they occur (because then people get outraged in return, and once that feedback loop gets going, nothing interrupts it). Stories like the OP upset all of us. When people come to the thread to ratchet that upsetness up even further, that succeeds, but at the wrong thing: it ignites a mob reaction. It might be good for a political rally, but it's devastating to the reflective—as opposed to reflexive—discussion that we strive for here. The motto of the Canadian senate is "sober second thought". When you consider that the opposite of sober second thought is "intemperate initial reaction", I think Hacker News could aspire worse than to be the Canadian senate of the Internet.

pvg 10y ago
It's nitpickery but the opposite of 'sober' in the sense used in that motto is surely not 'intoxicated'.
- dang 10y ago
  'Sober' comes from 'ebrius', i.e. drunk. So certainly it means the opposite of drunk, something every Canadian who has heard stories about our founding prime minister will appreciate. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sober http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sober I initially had "drunken initial reaction", imagined someone taking offense at that, and changed it to "intoxicated". That was sloppy on my part—clearly it should have been 'inebriated' (same root!) But as McLuhan said, you don't like these words I got others. Let's try 'intemperate'.
  - pvg 10y ago
    That's an unreasonably literal interpretation that would suggest that, say, 'worry' is about being strangled. Words are not defined entirely and only by their original roots and this is acknowledged by dictionaries. Webster: "marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor" Or if you want to go all out, the OED "Guided by sound reason; sane, rational [...] Of the mind, discourse, etc. 1651 Hobbes Leviath. i. viii. 36 If some man in Bedlam should entertaine you with sober discourse. [...]" Hobbes likely didn't mean to say that a man confined in Bedlam was permanently drunk nor was John A. Macdonald referring to his personal preference in liquid refreshments. Edit: It occurred to me we just re-enacted this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11873985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11873985 with much more boring nicknames. McLuhan won't save you from being wrong on the internet, though!