5 ms·

I would be curious of data on entry level sport cars that people use in commutes/daily driving i.e.: porsche

by fmsf 10y ago

bitL 10y ago
Blinker on a Ferrari or catalyst on Lamborghini can be easily $5,000 a piece. Have fun!
- jzamora 10y ago
  Ferrari/Lamborghini are definitely not entry level sport cars.
  - bitL 10y ago
    Alright, I assumed Porsche 911 to be entry level - for that both Ferrari and Lamborghini have similarly specced models. If you meant Boxster or even Cayman then maybe not.
    - busterarm 10y ago
      I sincerely hope nobody is buying a 911 as their first sports car. Or daily driving it.
      - bitL 10y ago
        Why not? It's a very pleasant drive up to ~150mph, beyond that it becomes a bit unstable in turns. Lamborghini is shaking up to 150mph and then it goes smooth as a butter (I drove over 190mph in turns on Autobahn at 2am, fantastic). 911 and Corvette C6 would be my first choices for a 1st sport car as they feel pretty nice and you don't kill yourself by a bad downshift.
        busterarm 10y ago
        I guess this is a mental failing for me here. When I think 911, I still think of the cars as they were before AWD and traction control. To me, that's when they were the most fun to drive and had fairly homicidal tendencies. That's my ideal 911. I don't really think of the new ones because they're almost boringly pedestrian to me. Not that anyone should need to drive a dangerous car to have fun -- you don't. I just find the last decade or so (or two even?) of the 911's history to be mostly devoid of character over its competitors. Edit: Moreover, I don't want any car to be "pleasant" to drive at high speed. That sounds just way too relaxed for that level of speed. It should be pleasant at much lower speeds, absolutely, but honestly anything above 70mph and especially 90mph should require 100% engagement. That doesn't necessitate being difficult, but still not something I want to describe as pleasant. Your grandparents could probably comfortably drive the new GT-R at 130mph in pouring rain. That should absolutely not be encouraged. I've driven at that speed in bad weather and it requires me to be hyper-alert.
        bitL 10y ago
        Ahh, the ones that were oversteering unexpectedly ;-) Yes, 911 nowadays is different, as you said pedestrian. For old-skool oversteering and difficult driving you have Porsche Carrera GT now ;-) 911 is IMO much easier to drive than most US muscle cars. Lambo with its changing aerodynamics and stiff suspension literally feels like butter at very high speeds and is a terrible shaker when driving slow. Here in Germany a Hausfrau returning from shopping drives 120mph+ easily so people here are used to a higher default speed level than in the US where you are allowed 65mph. Often when overtaking on Autobahns you drive 130mph and some nervous Porsche/AMG etc. drivers blink at you to leave the fast lane so that they can pass.
        busterarm 10y ago
        It's not even so much about higher default level of speed to me. I'm used to driving quite fast. I'm worried about physics. ΔV will kill you. I try as much as possible to eliminate the compounding effects of things-gone-wrong. ΔV is a multiplier in an accident. Edit/Aside: The ultimate oversteering screaming death car is the Omni GLHS. Man is that thing a hoot. But yeah, even if you don't hit them, I think that you should be able to see where the limits of a car may lie. I don't get that sense driving some of the modern "accessible" sportscars and that feeling actually makes me more nervous to drive them.
    - chadgeidel 10y ago
      911's start in the low $100k range. "On paper" the Ferrari 488 is ~$250k, the Lamborghini Hurrican is ~$210k, and the McLaren 570 is ~$190k. You can easily drive a 911 home for close to that $100k price. You probably cannot drive a 488, Hurrican, or 570 home for less than $250-$275k. Maintenance is similarly expensive. I agree that the Boxster/Cayman are more aligned with "entry level sports cars".
jbangert 10y ago
Your mechanic doesn't do much work Porsches. I have used them a lot in the past when I had a Saab (which is ultimately gm/American technology), but now that I have a decade old Mercedes and a decade old Porsche (I prefer maintenance over deprecation). Once a your mechanic contractor called me after the meeting was scheduled to start and told me that they couldn't service the car because they had no experience, diagnostic tools or spare parts for my car, and other interactions with them weren't better. Another time, their suggested 'OEM' quality parts really werent. Another factor might also be that many high end imports are services at the dealer/speciality shops and the service interactions with your mechanic are for cars that have less than stellar maintenance-- which skews the picture significantly.
adrianggg 10y ago
I have daily driver Porsche under warranty. I don't have hard numbers but it's been very reasonable. I had two certified pre-owned BMWs and never paid a cent for their entire lifetime. Porsche has cost me for tires but was brand new and under warranty. Fuel pump failed, replaced under warranty. I drive it everyday. It's brilliant. German engineering is great. Thinking S class Mercedes next. Is this helpful? or just bragging? haha :-)
- busterarm 10y ago
  What's with Porsche's choice to use thin-walled Hankook tires on their cars lately? Why put the worst fucking tires you can get on such a nice car?
- brisance 10y ago
  Don't know about the current S class but the previous models were plagued with electronic issues. Source: father owned one and extended family owned every single one of them.
seanp2k2 10y ago
You have an interesting definition of "entry-level".
- busterarm 10y ago
  For many first-time Porsche buyers (the kind that buy the ones you DD) it is their entry level. The danger of buying a Miata first is that you might skip Porsche altogether.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

I would be curious of data on entry level sport cars that people use in commutes/daily driving i.e.: porsche

by fmsf 10y ago

I would be curious of data on entry level sport cars that people use in commutes/daily driving i.e.: porsche

bitL 10y ago

Blinker on a Ferrari or catalyst on Lamborghini can be easily $5,000 a piece. Have fun!

jzamora 10y ago
Ferrari/Lamborghini are definitely not entry level sport cars.
- bitL 10y ago
  Alright, I assumed Porsche 911 to be entry level - for that both Ferrari and Lamborghini have similarly specced models. If you meant Boxster or even Cayman then maybe not.
  - busterarm 10y ago
    I sincerely hope nobody is buying a 911 as their first sports car. Or daily driving it.
    - bitL 10y ago
      Why not? It's a very pleasant drive up to ~150mph, beyond that it becomes a bit unstable in turns. Lamborghini is shaking up to 150mph and then it goes smooth as a butter (I drove over 190mph in turns on Autobahn at 2am, fantastic). 911 and Corvette C6 would be my first choices for a 1st sport car as they feel pretty nice and you don't kill yourself by a bad downshift.
      - busterarm 10y ago
        I guess this is a mental failing for me here. When I think 911, I still think of the cars as they were before AWD and traction control. To me, that's when they were the most fun to drive and had fairly homicidal tendencies. That's my ideal 911. I don't really think of the new ones because they're almost boringly pedestrian to me. Not that anyone should need to drive a dangerous car to have fun -- you don't. I just find the last decade or so (or two even?) of the 911's history to be mostly devoid of character over its competitors. Edit: Moreover, I don't want any car to be "pleasant" to drive at high speed. That sounds just way too relaxed for that level of speed. It should be pleasant at much lower speeds, absolutely, but honestly anything above 70mph and especially 90mph should require 100% engagement. That doesn't necessitate being difficult, but still not something I want to describe as pleasant. Your grandparents could probably comfortably drive the new GT-R at 130mph in pouring rain. That should absolutely not be encouraged. I've driven at that speed in bad weather and it requires me to be hyper-alert.
        bitL 10y ago
        Ahh, the ones that were oversteering unexpectedly ;-) Yes, 911 nowadays is different, as you said pedestrian. For old-skool oversteering and difficult driving you have Porsche Carrera GT now ;-) 911 is IMO much easier to drive than most US muscle cars. Lambo with its changing aerodynamics and stiff suspension literally feels like butter at very high speeds and is a terrible shaker when driving slow. Here in Germany a Hausfrau returning from shopping drives 120mph+ easily so people here are used to a higher default speed level than in the US where you are allowed 65mph. Often when overtaking on Autobahns you drive 130mph and some nervous Porsche/AMG etc. drivers blink at you to leave the fast lane so that they can pass.
        busterarm 10y ago
        It's not even so much about higher default level of speed to me. I'm used to driving quite fast. I'm worried about physics. ΔV will kill you. I try as much as possible to eliminate the compounding effects of things-gone-wrong. ΔV is a multiplier in an accident. Edit/Aside: The ultimate oversteering screaming death car is the Omni GLHS. Man is that thing a hoot. But yeah, even if you don't hit them, I think that you should be able to see where the limits of a car may lie. I don't get that sense driving some of the modern "accessible" sportscars and that feeling actually makes me more nervous to drive them.
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    911's start in the low $100k range. "On paper" the Ferrari 488 is ~$250k, the Lamborghini Hurrican is ~$210k, and the McLaren 570 is ~$190k. You can easily drive a 911 home for close to that $100k price. You probably cannot drive a 488, Hurrican, or 570 home for less than $250-$275k. Maintenance is similarly expensive. I agree that the Boxster/Cayman are more aligned with "entry level sports cars".

jbangert 10y ago

Your mechanic doesn't do much work Porsches. I have used them a lot in the past when I had a Saab (which is ultimately gm/American technology), but now that I have a decade old Mercedes and a decade old Porsche (I prefer maintenance over deprecation). Once a your mechanic contractor called me after the meeting was scheduled to start and told me that they couldn't service the car because they had no experience, diagnostic tools or spare parts for my car, and other interactions with them weren't better. Another time, their suggested 'OEM' quality parts really werent. Another factor might also be that many high end imports are services at the dealer/speciality shops and the service interactions with your mechanic are for cars that have less than stellar maintenance-- which skews the picture significantly.

adrianggg 10y ago

I have daily driver Porsche under warranty. I don't have hard numbers but it's been very reasonable. I had two certified pre-owned BMWs and never paid a cent for their entire lifetime. Porsche has cost me for tires but was brand new and under warranty. Fuel pump failed, replaced under warranty. I drive it everyday. It's brilliant. German engineering is great. Thinking S class Mercedes next. Is this helpful? or just bragging? haha :-)

busterarm 10y ago
What's with Porsche's choice to use thin-walled Hankook tires on their cars lately? Why put the worst fucking tires you can get on such a nice car?
brisance 10y ago
Don't know about the current S class but the previous models were plagued with electronic issues. Source: father owned one and extended family owned every single one of them.

seanp2k2 10y ago

You have an interesting definition of "entry-level".

busterarm 10y ago
For many first-time Porsche buyers (the kind that buy the ones you DD) it is their entry level. The danger of buying a Miata first is that you might skip Porsche altogether.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]