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What they're saying is that they don't want their game to be a place where you can vent or relieve stress. It's just another analog for meatspace, where you ha

What they're saying is that they don't want their game to be a place where you can vent or relieve stress. It's just another analog for meatspace, where you have to go around pretending to be nice to people who probably don't deserve it.

rincebrain 10y ago
You don't necessarily have to be actively kind to people. You do, however, have to not be actively hostile.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
  This is a video game, not real life. One that though I don't play it, I take it that it simulates hostility (violence, fighting, etc). If I'm mistaken there, I welcome correction. So the hostility doesn't have any of the harm that we associate with real-world hostility, but occurs within a video game that is modeled on hostility... and I'm not supposed to be hostile? What, do avatars just wander around basket-weaving and finger-painting in League of Legends? It's bizarre. God, I worry that I need to rush off and delete my Facebook account, lest my own employers get any strange ideas.
  - selectron 10y ago
    From my Dota experience, usually the hostility is between teammates. Because League partners 5 people together, mistakes and bad play from your teammates can have negative impact on your hero and this can be quite frustrating. Over-extensions from a team mate can lead to your hero also dying as you try to save your buddy. It is also easy to blame your teammates when you make a mistake.
  - srdev 10y ago
    No, hostility in the context of playing the game is fine. Its a PvP game so that wouldn't be a tenable policy. You can go and kill the other team all you want. Poor behavior in the in-game chat or metagame is whats at issue here: sending other people messages to insult them, throwing matches on purpose to "get back" at your team, being a poor sport, etc. Edit: Here's an analogy. Consider if you were playing a basketball game and one of the players slapped the ball out of his teammate's hand and started screaming in his face about how he s a terrible player and should have been aborted. That's the sort of behavior we're talking about.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    "This is a video game, not real life." Doesn't matter; you're interacting with real people. "So the hostility doesn't have any of the harm that we associate with real-world hostility, but occurs within a video game that is modeled on hostility... and I'm not supposed to be hostile?" No. You're supposed to be a grown up. Especially if you work for the company making the game, and are a public representative of that company.
  - astrobe_ 10y ago
    > This is a video game, not real life. Games and play is not only human. If you observe puppies and kitties playing, you'll find out that they are mimicking hunting moves, fights, etc., all things they'll do "seriously" in their adult life in order to survive and reproduce. Kids games are no different. IRL games and video games are no different, except that anonymity allows people to abuse others more.
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
> What they're saying is that they don't want their game to be a place where you can vent or relieve stress. If your preferred way to relieve stress is by calling people faggots and telling them to kill themselves, then I don't want to play games with you.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
  My preferred way isn't to call people "faggots". Interesting you jump to that though. This is what I'm talking about... anything less than perfect politeness must be exaggerated into indefensibility. The "you asshole" typed into in-game chat is apparently enough to get someone fired. Then, if it's reported or commented on publicly, someone like you'd jump in and characterize it as "he was running around screaming that we were all faggots".
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    When we talk about "toxic behavior" in online games, calling everyone faggots is exactly what we're talking about. It's not "anything less than perfect politeness", it's not calling somebody an asshole one time. Constant, wildly abusive behavior is endemic to MOBA games in particular, to the extent that many developers have whole teams of people dedicated to trying to reduce it. You've already said that you've never played this game, you don't appear to have much experience with online games in general, and you clearly haven't read the article if you think that Riot is firing people for saying "you asshole" in chat. You don't know anything about any part of the topic we're discussing. Why are you so determined that you're right anyway?
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
      You say this, and you believe it to be true. But yet you're all downvoting me for expressing an opinion without any name-calling at all. You disapprove of my opinion, you imagine that I'm screaming "faggots", and then you punish me for something that I've never done. Why would I believe you when you tell me that you're only punishing those who deserve it? You've already given me all the evidence I need to see what you'd really do. > You've already said that you've never played this game, you don't appear to have much experience with online games in general, and you clearly haven't read the article if you think that Riot is firing people for saying "you asshole" in chat. I did read the article. They didn't list out some exhaustive policy. They didn't talk about digging deep into the context or examining nuance and different perspectives. Like you, they already knew what they wanted to be rid of, they exaggerated behavior or fabricated it wholesale (just as you and the other hackernewsians have done here), and that was that. No defense, no appeals process, no presumption of innocence.

rincebrain 10y ago

You don't necessarily have to be actively kind to people. You do, however, have to not be actively hostile.

NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
This is a video game, not real life. One that though I don't play it, I take it that it simulates hostility (violence, fighting, etc). If I'm mistaken there, I welcome correction. So the hostility doesn't have any of the harm that we associate with real-world hostility, but occurs within a video game that is modeled on hostility... and I'm not supposed to be hostile? What, do avatars just wander around basket-weaving and finger-painting in League of Legends? It's bizarre. God, I worry that I need to rush off and delete my Facebook account, lest my own employers get any strange ideas.
- selectron 10y ago
  From my Dota experience, usually the hostility is between teammates. Because League partners 5 people together, mistakes and bad play from your teammates can have negative impact on your hero and this can be quite frustrating. Over-extensions from a team mate can lead to your hero also dying as you try to save your buddy. It is also easy to blame your teammates when you make a mistake.
- srdev 10y ago
  No, hostility in the context of playing the game is fine. Its a PvP game so that wouldn't be a tenable policy. You can go and kill the other team all you want. Poor behavior in the in-game chat or metagame is whats at issue here: sending other people messages to insult them, throwing matches on purpose to "get back" at your team, being a poor sport, etc. Edit: Here's an analogy. Consider if you were playing a basketball game and one of the players slapped the ball out of his teammate's hand and started screaming in his face about how he s a terrible player and should have been aborted. That's the sort of behavior we're talking about.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  "This is a video game, not real life." Doesn't matter; you're interacting with real people. "So the hostility doesn't have any of the harm that we associate with real-world hostility, but occurs within a video game that is modeled on hostility... and I'm not supposed to be hostile?" No. You're supposed to be a grown up. Especially if you work for the company making the game, and are a public representative of that company.
- astrobe_ 10y ago
  > This is a video game, not real life. Games and play is not only human. If you observe puppies and kitties playing, you'll find out that they are mimicking hunting moves, fights, etc., all things they'll do "seriously" in their adult life in order to survive and reproduce. Kids games are no different. IRL games and video games are no different, except that anonymity allows people to abuse others more.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

> What they're saying is that they don't want their game to be a place where you can vent or relieve stress. If your preferred way to relieve stress is by calling people faggots and telling them to kill themselves, then I don't want to play games with you.

NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
My preferred way isn't to call people "faggots". Interesting you jump to that though. This is what I'm talking about... anything less than perfect politeness must be exaggerated into indefensibility. The "you asshole" typed into in-game chat is apparently enough to get someone fired. Then, if it's reported or commented on publicly, someone like you'd jump in and characterize it as "he was running around screaming that we were all faggots".
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  When we talk about "toxic behavior" in online games, calling everyone faggots is exactly what we're talking about. It's not "anything less than perfect politeness", it's not calling somebody an asshole one time. Constant, wildly abusive behavior is endemic to MOBA games in particular, to the extent that many developers have whole teams of people dedicated to trying to reduce it. You've already said that you've never played this game, you don't appear to have much experience with online games in general, and you clearly haven't read the article if you think that Riot is firing people for saying "you asshole" in chat. You don't know anything about any part of the topic we're discussing. Why are you so determined that you're right anyway?
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
    You say this, and you believe it to be true. But yet you're all downvoting me for expressing an opinion without any name-calling at all. You disapprove of my opinion, you imagine that I'm screaming "faggots", and then you punish me for something that I've never done. Why would I believe you when you tell me that you're only punishing those who deserve it? You've already given me all the evidence I need to see what you'd really do. > You've already said that you've never played this game, you don't appear to have much experience with online games in general, and you clearly haven't read the article if you think that Riot is firing people for saying "you asshole" in chat. I did read the article. They didn't list out some exhaustive policy. They didn't talk about digging deep into the context or examining nuance and different perspectives. Like you, they already knew what they wanted to be rid of, they exaggerated behavior or fabricated it wholesale (just as you and the other hackernewsians have done here), and that was that. No defense, no appeals process, no presumption of innocence.