5 ms·

I'd think that toxic people don't tend to be long-term thinkers.

at-fates-hands 10y ago
Also passionate gamers are like passionate sports players. Some times the game and your opponents get the best of you and you do or say things you wouldn't normally do in a normal, low stress game.
astrobe_ 10y ago
It's not that simple. You can be a smart guy but a helpless sore loser, be one of those toxic players and be ashamed of yourself if someone would have you read your chat logs after the fact. Those real time games are very immersive, and players can easily let their ugly true self out if they aren't careful. And that's why Riot is interested in their potential employees' chat logs.
- lubujackson 10y ago
  It also means they might only be toxic while playing competitive games online and not working face-to-face with others. I guess I don't see why this would be more useful than judging them on their actual work behavior, kind of like when companies fire someone over their porn habits by reading their Google history. They can do what they want, it just seems a little invasive and probably pointless.
  - fhood 10y ago
    The article already states that they found a very clear correlation. Besides if someone is turns out to be a complete @$$hole whenever they aren't afraid of repercussions do you really want them working at your company.
    - gd1 10y ago
      "The article already states that they found a very clear correlation" Oh well that makes it ok then. If I find a clear correlation between say black skin and employee underperformance, I guess I can just go right ahead and sack individuals based on some statistical association discovered in a population they happen to belong to. What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean the entire lesson of not being racist or not being sexist or whatever is that it isn't ok to judge individuals by the population they happen to belong to. I mean guess what, black people are more likely to be criminals. Women are less likely to be coders. White people are less likely to play basketball well. These are statistical facts, though it seems awkward to say them. But that's ok, because the entire point is that you assess each individual you meet in life on their own merits, not some statistical generalization. And somewhere along they way, you've missed this point. You don't get to assume that an individual is a shitty employee because they are a shitty LoL player just because you have some correlation to go on.
      - astrobe_ 10y ago
        Good points, thanks for the reminder. Then it seems the only good use for this correlation is when consider to let go that person. Would it be ok?
        gd1 10y ago
        No. There is no need for statistics when you have the individual at your disposal and work with them day to day. Treat them as a human. There is no need to make vague statistical guesses, the data you gain by actually interacting with them is far superior, no? It would be like cutting John Stockton from your basketball team because he is short and white, there is no need to make statistical judgements like that when you can watch the actual player on the actual basketball court and assess them properly.
    - developer2 10y ago
      Bullshit on correlation. They found that 25% of "toxic players" (determined by some subjective agenda) were also toxic at some level within the company. This means absolutely nothing if you don't compare against the equivalent rate of "employee toxicity" from "non-toxic players". 25% isn't that high; I would bet that in general 1 out of 4 LoL players have been toxic in chat at one time or another. You can't just state 25% for one side of the equation without also mentioning what results you found from the other side. I suspect that 25% of LoL players in general have been "toxic". You can't just focus only on the "bad employees" and call that correlation.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
  What they're saying is that they don't want their game to be a place where you can vent or relieve stress. It's just another analog for meatspace, where you have to go around pretending to be nice to people who probably don't deserve it.
  - rincebrain 10y ago
    You don't necessarily have to be actively kind to people. You do, however, have to not be actively hostile.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
      This is a video game, not real life. One that though I don't play it, I take it that it simulates hostility (violence, fighting, etc). If I'm mistaken there, I welcome correction. So the hostility doesn't have any of the harm that we associate with real-world hostility, but occurs within a video game that is modeled on hostility... and I'm not supposed to be hostile? What, do avatars just wander around basket-weaving and finger-painting in League of Legends? It's bizarre. God, I worry that I need to rush off and delete my Facebook account, lest my own employers get any strange ideas.
      - selectron 10y ago
        From my Dota experience, usually the hostility is between teammates. Because League partners 5 people together, mistakes and bad play from your teammates can have negative impact on your hero and this can be quite frustrating. Over-extensions from a team mate can lead to your hero also dying as you try to save your buddy. It is also easy to blame your teammates when you make a mistake.
      - srdev 10y ago
        No, hostility in the context of playing the game is fine. Its a PvP game so that wouldn't be a tenable policy. You can go and kill the other team all you want. Poor behavior in the in-game chat or metagame is whats at issue here: sending other people messages to insult them, throwing matches on purpose to "get back" at your team, being a poor sport, etc. Edit: Here's an analogy. Consider if you were playing a basketball game and one of the players slapped the ball out of his teammate's hand and started screaming in his face about how he s a terrible player and should have been aborted. That's the sort of behavior we're talking about.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  If you're ashamed when someone reads you your chat logs after the game, then that should be a pretty big indicator that you're in the wrong.
  - blakeyrat 10y ago
    There's a heck of a lot of people in the world who know what they're doing is wrong, but simply do not care until they get caught doing it. Sure, if your boss pulls you into his office and says your chat in that last game was completely unacceptable, you'll feel properly ashamed. But take that same person and put them in a situation where they know they can't be caught doing it (say, when they're playing an Xbox Live game), and the toxicity will spring right back. It's not sufficient for society to merely teach people what things are wrong; that's not enough to stop every person. We also hire police to fill in the gaps.

Also passionate gamers are like passionate sports players. Some times the game and your opponents get the best of you and you do or say things you wouldn't normally do in a normal, low stress game.

astrobe_ 10y ago

It's not that simple. You can be a smart guy but a helpless sore loser, be one of those toxic players and be ashamed of yourself if someone would have you read your chat logs after the fact. Those real time games are very immersive, and players can easily let their ugly true self out if they aren't careful. And that's why Riot is interested in their potential employees' chat logs.

lubujackson 10y ago
It also means they might only be toxic while playing competitive games online and not working face-to-face with others. I guess I don't see why this would be more useful than judging them on their actual work behavior, kind of like when companies fire someone over their porn habits by reading their Google history. They can do what they want, it just seems a little invasive and probably pointless.
- fhood 10y ago
  The article already states that they found a very clear correlation. Besides if someone is turns out to be a complete @$$hole whenever they aren't afraid of repercussions do you really want them working at your company.
  - gd1 10y ago
    "The article already states that they found a very clear correlation" Oh well that makes it ok then. If I find a clear correlation between say black skin and employee underperformance, I guess I can just go right ahead and sack individuals based on some statistical association discovered in a population they happen to belong to. What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean the entire lesson of not being racist or not being sexist or whatever is that it isn't ok to judge individuals by the population they happen to belong to. I mean guess what, black people are more likely to be criminals. Women are less likely to be coders. White people are less likely to play basketball well. These are statistical facts, though it seems awkward to say them. But that's ok, because the entire point is that you assess each individual you meet in life on their own merits, not some statistical generalization. And somewhere along they way, you've missed this point. You don't get to assume that an individual is a shitty employee because they are a shitty LoL player just because you have some correlation to go on.
    - astrobe_ 10y ago
      Good points, thanks for the reminder. Then it seems the only good use for this correlation is when consider to let go that person. Would it be ok?
      - gd1 10y ago
        No. There is no need for statistics when you have the individual at your disposal and work with them day to day. Treat them as a human. There is no need to make vague statistical guesses, the data you gain by actually interacting with them is far superior, no? It would be like cutting John Stockton from your basketball team because he is short and white, there is no need to make statistical judgements like that when you can watch the actual player on the actual basketball court and assess them properly.
  - developer2 10y ago
    Bullshit on correlation. They found that 25% of "toxic players" (determined by some subjective agenda) were also toxic at some level within the company. This means absolutely nothing if you don't compare against the equivalent rate of "employee toxicity" from "non-toxic players". 25% isn't that high; I would bet that in general 1 out of 4 LoL players have been toxic in chat at one time or another. You can't just state 25% for one side of the equation without also mentioning what results you found from the other side. I suspect that 25% of LoL players in general have been "toxic". You can't just focus only on the "bad employees" and call that correlation.
NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
What they're saying is that they don't want their game to be a place where you can vent or relieve stress. It's just another analog for meatspace, where you have to go around pretending to be nice to people who probably don't deserve it.
- rincebrain 10y ago
  You don't necessarily have to be actively kind to people. You do, however, have to not be actively hostile.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
    This is a video game, not real life. One that though I don't play it, I take it that it simulates hostility (violence, fighting, etc). If I'm mistaken there, I welcome correction. So the hostility doesn't have any of the harm that we associate with real-world hostility, but occurs within a video game that is modeled on hostility... and I'm not supposed to be hostile? What, do avatars just wander around basket-weaving and finger-painting in League of Legends? It's bizarre. God, I worry that I need to rush off and delete my Facebook account, lest my own employers get any strange ideas.
    - selectron 10y ago
      From my Dota experience, usually the hostility is between teammates. Because League partners 5 people together, mistakes and bad play from your teammates can have negative impact on your hero and this can be quite frustrating. Over-extensions from a team mate can lead to your hero also dying as you try to save your buddy. It is also easy to blame your teammates when you make a mistake.
    - srdev 10y ago
      No, hostility in the context of playing the game is fine. Its a PvP game so that wouldn't be a tenable policy. You can go and kill the other team all you want. Poor behavior in the in-game chat or metagame is whats at issue here: sending other people messages to insult them, throwing matches on purpose to "get back" at your team, being a poor sport, etc. Edit: Here's an analogy. Consider if you were playing a basketball game and one of the players slapped the ball out of his teammate's hand and started screaming in his face about how he s a terrible player and should have been aborted. That's the sort of behavior we're talking about.
st3v3r 10y ago
If you're ashamed when someone reads you your chat logs after the game, then that should be a pretty big indicator that you're in the wrong.
- blakeyrat 10y ago
  There's a heck of a lot of people in the world who know what they're doing is wrong, but simply do not care until they get caught doing it. Sure, if your boss pulls you into his office and says your chat in that last game was completely unacceptable, you'll feel properly ashamed. But take that same person and put them in a situation where they know they can't be caught doing it (say, when they're playing an Xbox Live game), and the toxicity will spring right back. It's not sufficient for society to merely teach people what things are wrong; that's not enough to stop every person. We also hire police to fill in the gaps.