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No doubt, but the problems are the same: Food, oxygen management, cosmic rays and no atmosphere. Though Musk mentions a "pre-fab city" of some kind built withi

No doubt, but the problems are the same: Food, oxygen management, cosmic rays and no atmosphere. Though Musk mentions a "pre-fab city" of some kind built within a 8-year time frame (starting yesterday and who or what is going to build it?) how can one not think that this is too ambitious? Question, what kind of food can they grow on Mars and would natural pressures may make this good inedible? We do not know. What about Musk's 26-month supply drop? Who is going to pay for it and what happens if SpaceX misses a delivery due to a "black swan" event or the company goes under? Arguably, like MARS ONE this could be a scam, or more likely a well intentioned vision with no ground work in place to be accepted as credible. Since none of these problems have been addressed, and not one "Matt Damon" potato has been grown on Mars or a "Mars sim" environment I think my remarks were credible, YMMV.

cryptoz 10y ago
Well, if you think that Elon's companies are a scam, that's that then, I doubt I'll be able to change your mind. This project is difficult and risky, especially for the first colonists, yes. But it's not a scam. Your questions will mostly be answered slowly over the next few years as SpaceX, NASA, and others collaborate and build the infrastructure for a Mars colony.
- SCAQTony 10y ago
  Ok, let's revisit this comment in 8-years and you can either dig me up or down. ;-)
secstate 10y ago
Pretty sure folks attempting trans-atlantic or pacific voyages in the Age of Sail weren't always promised land, or food or water. Many died, even more lived in horrible circumstances. Shackleton's Expedition comes to mind as one of the more awful experiences in human exploration. Yet we persist in exploring, not because these things are easy, but because they are hard. Humans living on another planet? That's probably worth more lives than were lost colonizing North America.
- grondilu 10y ago
  > Yet we persist in exploring, not because these things are easy, but because they are hard. That's a reason to go, not to stay. We like the challenge of going where nobody ever went before, but we almost always come back. When a mountain climber reaches a peak for the first time, he spends a few minutes to enjoy the view, but then he climbs down.
  - cryptoz 10y ago
    No, it's a reason to stay as well. In fact, it's a reason to stay on Mars and to change Mars into a place where billions could live comfortably. Humanity is going to be expanding out to the planets and the stars, and that will be mighty difficult to do if we always come back home right away. People colonizing the New World from Europe didn't plan on coming right back, never to voyage again. They stayed, founded colonies that became the USA, who now has citizens building spaceships to colonize the planets and the stars. Marvelous.
    - grondilu 10y ago
      > People colonizing the New World from Europe didn't plan on coming right back, never to voyage again. I'm tired of this comparison with the American continent. I've expressed my opinion about it before[1], but I guess I should do it again. It's a terrible comparison. The American continent is not an other planet. It was just a place Europeans did not know about. Living there was not much different from living in Europe, and doing so did not require new technologies or anything : in fact it was already inhabited by people who were not more technologically advanced (and that's an euphemism). If mars looked anything like what America looked like before Colombus, I would totally be up to colonize it. But it does not. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11584314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11584314
      - secstate 10y ago
        Pretty sure the folks of the failed N. American colonies might beg to differ [0]. The earliest settlers experienced food shortages, as their crops either failed or were in appropriate for where they landed and were under attack from folks who had issues with them being there. Actually, considering the absence of folks already living there, Mars is kind of a colonists dream in terms of being able to control the vast majority of the variables. Sure things will still go wrong and people will still die, but in terms of liberating ourselves from our 3rd rock from the sun, colonizing Mars will stand as one of the pivotal moments in Earth life-history, not just human history. 0: http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/amerbegin/exploration/text6/text6read.htm http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/amerbegin/exploratio...

cryptoz 10y ago

Well, if you think that Elon's companies are a scam, that's that then, I doubt I'll be able to change your mind. This project is difficult and risky, especially for the first colonists, yes. But it's not a scam. Your questions will mostly be answered slowly over the next few years as SpaceX, NASA, and others collaborate and build the infrastructure for a Mars colony.

SCAQTony 10y ago
Ok, let's revisit this comment in 8-years and you can either dig me up or down. ;-)

secstate 10y ago

Pretty sure folks attempting trans-atlantic or pacific voyages in the Age of Sail weren't always promised land, or food or water. Many died, even more lived in horrible circumstances. Shackleton's Expedition comes to mind as one of the more awful experiences in human exploration. Yet we persist in exploring, not because these things are easy, but because they are hard. Humans living on another planet? That's probably worth more lives than were lost colonizing North America.

grondilu 10y ago
> Yet we persist in exploring, not because these things are easy, but because they are hard. That's a reason to go, not to stay. We like the challenge of going where nobody ever went before, but we almost always come back. When a mountain climber reaches a peak for the first time, he spends a few minutes to enjoy the view, but then he climbs down.
- cryptoz 10y ago
  No, it's a reason to stay as well. In fact, it's a reason to stay on Mars and to change Mars into a place where billions could live comfortably. Humanity is going to be expanding out to the planets and the stars, and that will be mighty difficult to do if we always come back home right away. People colonizing the New World from Europe didn't plan on coming right back, never to voyage again. They stayed, founded colonies that became the USA, who now has citizens building spaceships to colonize the planets and the stars. Marvelous.
  - grondilu 10y ago
    > People colonizing the New World from Europe didn't plan on coming right back, never to voyage again. I'm tired of this comparison with the American continent. I've expressed my opinion about it before[1], but I guess I should do it again. It's a terrible comparison. The American continent is not an other planet. It was just a place Europeans did not know about. Living there was not much different from living in Europe, and doing so did not require new technologies or anything : in fact it was already inhabited by people who were not more technologically advanced (and that's an euphemism). If mars looked anything like what America looked like before Colombus, I would totally be up to colonize it. But it does not. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11584314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11584314
    - secstate 10y ago
      Pretty sure the folks of the failed N. American colonies might beg to differ [0]. The earliest settlers experienced food shortages, as their crops either failed or were in appropriate for where they landed and were under attack from folks who had issues with them being there. Actually, considering the absence of folks already living there, Mars is kind of a colonists dream in terms of being able to control the vast majority of the variables. Sure things will still go wrong and people will still die, but in terms of liberating ourselves from our 3rd rock from the sun, colonizing Mars will stand as one of the pivotal moments in Earth life-history, not just human history. 0: http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/amerbegin/exploration/text6/text6read.htm http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/amerbegin/exploratio...