7 ms·

Keep in mind, this was a white American detained for some arbitrary visa restrictions which is a rarity. Middle Eastern individuals are very frequently put in t

Keep in mind, this was a white American detained for some arbitrary visa restrictions which is a rarity. Middle Eastern individuals are very frequently put in the 'corral of shame' for reasons unbeknownst to them. I can't recall how many times I've been randomly searched, or have had officers keep an eye on me. I've also occasionally put through interrogations by irate border patrol over the mundane minutiae of my travel. Her entire ordeal is one I've faced several times solely based off my appearance and name. These acts and laws only give legitimacy to discriminate and harass travellers of certain backgrounds, yet failing to add any measure of security.

Manishearth 10y ago
A lot of times the corral of shame contains old helpless people too, who seem to have been deliberately put there for the pleasure of the corral ranchers. I and my family were traveling back home to Boston. Coincidentally, the Indian grandparents of close friends of ours were on the same flight to visit said friends. Like most old Indian ladies, the grandma was wearing traditional clothes (nothing fancy). They didn't speak much English. They were detained at Logan. Fortunately, my mother (a US citizen) was allowed to be with them as a translator. They had them sit in this room for a long time, after which they asked arbitrary and silly questions. That room was full of other old, non-white people wearing non-American clothing or "religious symbols" (e.g.a turban). Many didn't speak the language. Most were scared and confused. It was pretty clear that the officers just wanted to harass people. If my mother hadn't been there the grandparents would have had a much more gruelling experience and would have probably been stuck there for a while.
- Camillo 10y ago
  "Old helpless people" are actually a risky category at border crossings. Elderly parents are brought in on a tourist visa, then they stay illegally and end up costing the country money for social services. Of course border controls would try to prevent that.
  - Manishearth 10y ago
    Right, except the questions asked weren't relevant to that (i don't remember what they were; this was years ago -- I remember my mom saying that they were confrontational and more focused on figuring out if the old people were terrorists)
    - golergka 10y ago
      Confrontational questions are a usual tactic in such interrogations; the goal is not to get the answers, but to get the subject into an agitated state, so he would have a harder time lying about the real questions.
      - true_religion 10y ago
        This is true. It's an interrogation. If they simply stated we'll ask you these 20 questions, or even that all questions will be 100% relevant to your situation, then you could simply practice until you could lie with a straight-face to any possible question.
      - true_religion 10y ago
        This is true. It's an interrogation. If they simply stated we'll ask you these 20 questions, or even that all questions will be 100% relevant to your situation, then you could simply practice until you could lie with a straight-face to any possible question.
      - mthoms 10y ago
        I wish more people understood this. When a border guard goes off on an a bizarre line of questioning, the intent is not simply to know the factual answers to those questions. Rather, it's to gauge your response and to disarm you mentally.
        Manishearth 10y ago
        I'm pretty sure anyone who can maintain the façade of a bewildered old lady can survive under this line of questioning.
- golergka 10y ago
  Not questioning the facts of your story, but how did you arrive at a conclusion on officer's motives?
  - Manishearth 10y ago
    Because they were trying to find out if obviously helpless old people were terrorists, and asking questions geared towards that. It's possible they didn't have any motive, and the composition of that room was just a fluke. But I don't think it's likely.
monkeynotes 10y ago
I think it's perfectly reasonable to discriminate, I mean it's just sensible to pay a little more attention to a 23 year old male who is coming to London from Syria for the first time than an 80 year old white Romford grandmother returning home from visiting her grandson in Luxembourg. Yes, dumb-ass, power hungry, bored border guards probably abuse this policy, but the alternative is to treat everyone the same and everyone gets quizzed, or not. It's a bind, what is the solution? The author was right when she observed that we have done this to ourselves.

Manishearth 10y ago

A lot of times the corral of shame contains old helpless people too, who seem to have been deliberately put there for the pleasure of the corral ranchers. I and my family were traveling back home to Boston. Coincidentally, the Indian grandparents of close friends of ours were on the same flight to visit said friends. Like most old Indian ladies, the grandma was wearing traditional clothes (nothing fancy). They didn't speak much English. They were detained at Logan. Fortunately, my mother (a US citizen) was allowed to be with them as a translator. They had them sit in this room for a long time, after which they asked arbitrary and silly questions. That room was full of other old, non-white people wearing non-American clothing or "religious symbols" (e.g.a turban). Many didn't speak the language. Most were scared and confused. It was pretty clear that the officers just wanted to harass people. If my mother hadn't been there the grandparents would have had a much more gruelling experience and would have probably been stuck there for a while.

Camillo 10y ago
"Old helpless people" are actually a risky category at border crossings. Elderly parents are brought in on a tourist visa, then they stay illegally and end up costing the country money for social services. Of course border controls would try to prevent that.
- Manishearth 10y ago
  Right, except the questions asked weren't relevant to that (i don't remember what they were; this was years ago -- I remember my mom saying that they were confrontational and more focused on figuring out if the old people were terrorists)
  - golergka 10y ago
    Confrontational questions are a usual tactic in such interrogations; the goal is not to get the answers, but to get the subject into an agitated state, so he would have a harder time lying about the real questions.
    - true_religion 10y ago
      This is true. It's an interrogation. If they simply stated we'll ask you these 20 questions, or even that all questions will be 100% relevant to your situation, then you could simply practice until you could lie with a straight-face to any possible question.
    - true_religion 10y ago
      This is true. It's an interrogation. If they simply stated we'll ask you these 20 questions, or even that all questions will be 100% relevant to your situation, then you could simply practice until you could lie with a straight-face to any possible question.
    - mthoms 10y ago
      I wish more people understood this. When a border guard goes off on an a bizarre line of questioning, the intent is not simply to know the factual answers to those questions. Rather, it's to gauge your response and to disarm you mentally.
      - Manishearth 10y ago
        I'm pretty sure anyone who can maintain the façade of a bewildered old lady can survive under this line of questioning.
golergka 10y ago
Not questioning the facts of your story, but how did you arrive at a conclusion on officer's motives?
- Manishearth 10y ago
  Because they were trying to find out if obviously helpless old people were terrorists, and asking questions geared towards that. It's possible they didn't have any motive, and the composition of that room was just a fluke. But I don't think it's likely.

monkeynotes 10y ago

I think it's perfectly reasonable to discriminate, I mean it's just sensible to pay a little more attention to a 23 year old male who is coming to London from Syria for the first time than an 80 year old white Romford grandmother returning home from visiting her grandson in Luxembourg. Yes, dumb-ass, power hungry, bored border guards probably abuse this policy, but the alternative is to treat everyone the same and everyone gets quizzed, or not. It's a bind, what is the solution? The author was right when she observed that we have done this to ourselves.