5 ms·

Why not ask each of them directly ? Do not let on that you are in dark as to the contents of their reference. If done right, you can elicit an admission of culp

Why not ask each of them directly ? Do not let on that you are in dark as to the contents of their reference. If done right, you can elicit an admission of culpability.

anonnystate 10y ago
One was a friend and I nearly damaged that relationship yesterday in course of asking. Thank God his calmness saved our friendship. The other 2 are merely colleagues. what do you mean exactly by "done right"? Appreciate the social engineering tip!
- theli0nheart 10y ago
  I'm not sure how you approached it with your friend, but this certainly isn't the sort of thing where you need to ask them directly if they gave you a bad reference. No one is going to respond well to that. I would just bring up that you had the interview with the recruiter, but weren't able to move forward in the process. If they're indeed a friend--or anyone you're close to professionally--they'll probably ask why, and that point you tell them what you've told us, and just see how they react. If they don't ask why or have any interest in caring why you didn't get the position, that might be a red flag.
- s_q_b 10y ago
  Approach the issue orthogonally. Open a conversation about something else, then ask, "Oh did you ever get a call about that reference?" 1. If he denies receiving the call, that's him. 2. If he becomes unfomfortable that's likely him, but you need more information. 3. If you receive any other answer, press on. "Yeah, the recruiter gave me a run down on what everybody said so far..." Now wait. See if that elicits anything. A change of topic without answering would be the typical "poor man's" lie. If there's no obvious indication, you're now in a position to ask "informational" questions. First, restore their impression of anonymity. Slip in, "Yeah, but the reviews weren't matched up with names." If there's an obvious sign of relief, that's likely your person. "Do you remember what questions they asked, by any chance. A friend asked me to give her a reference, and I want to avoid any potholes." You can circle around the topic like that for a few questions. A typical honest person will quickly become bored by the topic. A dishonest person will politely, and fully give as many answers to your questions as you want. That's a start. Try to ask this face to face. Trust your instincts here, not your reason. Remember your brain has a tremendously complicated apparatus for detecting lies. But this apparatus operates subconsciously. To utilize it, you'll have to become comfortable with observing your own responses. Does something "seem" off? Another useful tactic is to simply ask twice. Lies are hard to remember, and they shift over time to explain away new evidence. The truth remains constant. Remember, this doesn't have to be perfect. You're really just trying to probabilistically improve the chance that you successfully eliminate the bad reference. To be honest, however, I doubt the person even realizes that their reference sunk you. As others have suggested, it was probably an accidentally lukewarm, "Oh yes, I can confirm so-and-so worked here. He's a hard worker, and he has my recommendation." That's pretty much the boilerplate HR reference, for the exact reason of avoiding liability. I wouldn't even bother with social engineering. You're more likely to damage your social network than gain anything of use. Pick yourself up, find another gig, use different references, and move on. Remember, you're in one of the most in demand fields in the economy. Relax and find someplace that doesn't ghost you over a hiccup.
  - Lordarminius 10y ago
    And to add to all the above,since your conversation with friend number one, your job is already 1/3 done.
- dhimes 10y ago
  I still think this is a good idea. Of course, you have to do it delicately. You can just bring it humbly up in the conversation, like "yah, I didn't get the job. Apparently one of my references said something that they didn't like. Or maybe I blew the interview. Sheesh." After starting the conversation and discussing other things about the job the refs may confess what they did say. It may not be anything that they think was bad ("What? I just mentioned that you get high at lunch occasionally. No big deal- lots of people do.") in which case you can have a calm discussion about what to say next time ("ummm, maybe leave that bit out..."). But honestly, this part worries me: I nearly damaged that relationship yesterday in course of asking I'm trying to imagine that conversation. If you an aggressive, emotional person then I'm imagining, then it may not have been just one reference. It may be something that came through in their conversations with everybody, including you. You may need to chill a little in general- and work on your 'people skills.' If you are the "brutally honest" type, for example, you may face this problem again if don't learn how to get along. Learn how to make people feel good about themselves rather than bad and you'll get farther.
- tim_nuwin 10y ago
  So he's the calm one, and you almost damaged a relationship with this person. I can possibly see these 3 people in question mentioning to the headhunter that your personality might not mesh well with other people.

Why not ask each of them directly ? Do not let on that you are in dark as to the contents of their reference. If done right, you can elicit an admission of culpability.

anonnystate 10y ago

One was a friend and I nearly damaged that relationship yesterday in course of asking. Thank God his calmness saved our friendship. The other 2 are merely colleagues. what do you mean exactly by "done right"? Appreciate the social engineering tip!

theli0nheart 10y ago
I'm not sure how you approached it with your friend, but this certainly isn't the sort of thing where you need to ask them directly if they gave you a bad reference. No one is going to respond well to that. I would just bring up that you had the interview with the recruiter, but weren't able to move forward in the process. If they're indeed a friend--or anyone you're close to professionally--they'll probably ask why, and that point you tell them what you've told us, and just see how they react. If they don't ask why or have any interest in caring why you didn't get the position, that might be a red flag.
s_q_b 10y ago
Approach the issue orthogonally. Open a conversation about something else, then ask, "Oh did you ever get a call about that reference?" 1. If he denies receiving the call, that's him. 2. If he becomes unfomfortable that's likely him, but you need more information. 3. If you receive any other answer, press on. "Yeah, the recruiter gave me a run down on what everybody said so far..." Now wait. See if that elicits anything. A change of topic without answering would be the typical "poor man's" lie. If there's no obvious indication, you're now in a position to ask "informational" questions. First, restore their impression of anonymity. Slip in, "Yeah, but the reviews weren't matched up with names." If there's an obvious sign of relief, that's likely your person. "Do you remember what questions they asked, by any chance. A friend asked me to give her a reference, and I want to avoid any potholes." You can circle around the topic like that for a few questions. A typical honest person will quickly become bored by the topic. A dishonest person will politely, and fully give as many answers to your questions as you want. That's a start. Try to ask this face to face. Trust your instincts here, not your reason. Remember your brain has a tremendously complicated apparatus for detecting lies. But this apparatus operates subconsciously. To utilize it, you'll have to become comfortable with observing your own responses. Does something "seem" off? Another useful tactic is to simply ask twice. Lies are hard to remember, and they shift over time to explain away new evidence. The truth remains constant. Remember, this doesn't have to be perfect. You're really just trying to probabilistically improve the chance that you successfully eliminate the bad reference. To be honest, however, I doubt the person even realizes that their reference sunk you. As others have suggested, it was probably an accidentally lukewarm, "Oh yes, I can confirm so-and-so worked here. He's a hard worker, and he has my recommendation." That's pretty much the boilerplate HR reference, for the exact reason of avoiding liability. I wouldn't even bother with social engineering. You're more likely to damage your social network than gain anything of use. Pick yourself up, find another gig, use different references, and move on. Remember, you're in one of the most in demand fields in the economy. Relax and find someplace that doesn't ghost you over a hiccup.
- Lordarminius 10y ago
  And to add to all the above,since your conversation with friend number one, your job is already 1/3 done.
dhimes 10y ago
I still think this is a good idea. Of course, you have to do it delicately. You can just bring it humbly up in the conversation, like "yah, I didn't get the job. Apparently one of my references said something that they didn't like. Or maybe I blew the interview. Sheesh." After starting the conversation and discussing other things about the job the refs may confess what they did say. It may not be anything that they think was bad ("What? I just mentioned that you get high at lunch occasionally. No big deal- lots of people do.") in which case you can have a calm discussion about what to say next time ("ummm, maybe leave that bit out..."). But honestly, this part worries me: I nearly damaged that relationship yesterday in course of asking I'm trying to imagine that conversation. If you an aggressive, emotional person then I'm imagining, then it may not have been just one reference. It may be something that came through in their conversations with everybody, including you. You may need to chill a little in general- and work on your 'people skills.' If you are the "brutally honest" type, for example, you may face this problem again if don't learn how to get along. Learn how to make people feel good about themselves rather than bad and you'll get farther.
tim_nuwin 10y ago
So he's the calm one, and you almost damaged a relationship with this person. I can possibly see these 3 people in question mentioning to the headhunter that your personality might not mesh well with other people.