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> This person may produce a script or a basic website for a portfolio, but those 40+ hours a week spent coding at a full time job is where all of the real probl

> This person may produce a script or a basic website for a portfolio, but those 40+ hours a week spent coding at a full time job is where all of the real problems get solved. That's it right there. That's the bit that makes the difference. It speaks to an attitude of 'I'm doing it, I don't need to prove it'. It's wrapped up in 'I'm doing it and I'm too busy to prove it because I should have a life and other people should just recognise my ability so I don't have to sacrifice my lifestyle to put the effort in to get the job I want"...but it really comes down to thinking I shouldn't have to show it because I'm doing it. There's no can't show it inherent in your original statement. There's a large dollop of don't want but no can't. You can find ways to prove you ability, to use work you do day to day, to make high quality personal projects or contribute to those that are already running (beauty of programming is it can be easier to collaborate like this and still show your skill). It can be done. Plenty of people in all industries work one job and study, prepare or work towards another all whilst supporting families and trying to have a life. Programmers aren't special snowflakes, they've got to work just as hard at selling themselves as all other people in the creative industries do. That's why I think programmers really need to grasp that they actually are creatives and adopt an attitude that deals with all the burdens that moniker brings with it.

oblio 10y ago
Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos than it is to set up an equivalent software project. More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project.
- PuffinBlue 10y ago
  > Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Why wouldn't you invest time in it? It's investing in yourself and could get you your next pay rise. It's not wasted time. We're back to the point I made above about putting the effort in. > Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos Sure, as I already said it's not a perfect comparison, it's there to illustrate a point. And I reject your second point very strongly. Even something simple like a single headshot can take hours of planning and setup. Something like a documentary project might take months or even years to complete. Something like a commercial shoot might take a team of 20 a week to complete and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars - how do you get to put that sort of work in your portfolio? Sometimes you work for free, sometimes you create a whole shoot yourself at great cost. You work for it essentially. That's how. And a single photo might be no more the 'whole' than a single file might be the 'whole' programme for instance. Anyway, the exact vagaries of the industry aren't important, it's the assertion that programming is a creative discipline that is important. > More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project. Possibly, but a portfolio isn't trying to sell a product it's selling 'you'. Stuff that goes in the portfolio shows how you do what you do, gives a window on how you work, how you approach a problem, how you solve it. Many photographers will create 'behind the scenes' shoots and videos to show how they work and show clients how they solve problems for instance. These can be independent of the exact example and just because a programming language might change you can still use an older project to show your skill and approach to a particular type of problem. Anyway, I've laboured the point long enough, feel free to grab the last word but I think I've outlined my point well enough to be understood.
  - mathgeek 10y ago
    > feel free to grab the last word I hope you realize you're having a discussion with three different people. It's not up to you whether the community continues this discussion without you.
    - PuffinBlue 10y ago
      Of course I realise, the usernames are literally right there. I was just saying I'm out of the conversation as I've laboured the point too long. As you say, a post here is a post to the community, so I was addressing the community - saying someone else can take the last word if they wish, I've gone on too long.

oblio 10y ago

Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos than it is to set up an equivalent software project. More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project.

PuffinBlue 10y ago
> Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Why wouldn't you invest time in it? It's investing in yourself and could get you your next pay rise. It's not wasted time. We're back to the point I made above about putting the effort in. > Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos Sure, as I already said it's not a perfect comparison, it's there to illustrate a point. And I reject your second point very strongly. Even something simple like a single headshot can take hours of planning and setup. Something like a documentary project might take months or even years to complete. Something like a commercial shoot might take a team of 20 a week to complete and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars - how do you get to put that sort of work in your portfolio? Sometimes you work for free, sometimes you create a whole shoot yourself at great cost. You work for it essentially. That's how. And a single photo might be no more the 'whole' than a single file might be the 'whole' programme for instance. Anyway, the exact vagaries of the industry aren't important, it's the assertion that programming is a creative discipline that is important. > More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project. Possibly, but a portfolio isn't trying to sell a product it's selling 'you'. Stuff that goes in the portfolio shows how you do what you do, gives a window on how you work, how you approach a problem, how you solve it. Many photographers will create 'behind the scenes' shoots and videos to show how they work and show clients how they solve problems for instance. These can be independent of the exact example and just because a programming language might change you can still use an older project to show your skill and approach to a particular type of problem. Anyway, I've laboured the point long enough, feel free to grab the last word but I think I've outlined my point well enough to be understood.
- mathgeek 10y ago
  > feel free to grab the last word I hope you realize you're having a discussion with three different people. It's not up to you whether the community continues this discussion without you.
  - PuffinBlue 10y ago
    Of course I realise, the usernames are literally right there. I was just saying I'm out of the conversation as I've laboured the point too long. As you say, a post here is a post to the community, so I was addressing the community - saying someone else can take the last word if they wish, I've gone on too long.